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The Problem With AntsEmporium

antsemporium ants emporium

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#1 Offline CheetoLord02 - Posted August 9 2021 - 2:34 PM

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As some of you may know, recently a new ant store has popped up in the US by the name of AntsEmporium. Boasting an impressive selection of ant species with permits to sell them across a wide variety of US states, this seems like an amazing thing for the US antkeeping community. Being able to purchase exotic species legally is what everyone has wanted for so long now. So what's the problem?

Well, the main issue with this new store is the man behind the action. Some of you may recognize the name Atta Garrett when I mention it and realize what I'm getting at. For years Garrett has been known to do some fishy business at the least, and straight-up scamming at the worst. He is known for mass collecting ants to sell in huge numbers, both within the state of Texas where he lives and in other states to then sell across the country and even to Europe. This may not seem like a big issue considering he has permits to sell ants out of state, but know these permits are a new development, having only been granted within the last year. His out of state selling has been occurring for far longer than that.

The next main issue is that even if we assume he's completely turned on illegal trade as he has claimed, and is only doing trade under official permits, the problem still comes with his collection. Now, overcollection is one thing on its own, reports say he collected over 3000 Atta texana queens in 2021, but so long as the collection is done legally, there's not much you can do about it. The other issue is illegal collection.




This video on Garrett's personal channel shows an Acromyrmex versicolor swarm in El Paso, Texas. He recently started selling this species on AntsEmporium, so this video explains where he got them. Except there's one key flaw. There is no Acromyrmex in El Paso. The only place in West Texas that this species exists is in Big Bend National Park. Here's some proof:






This leaves two options:
These queens were collected in Big Bend (illegal to collect in a National Park)
These queens were collected in another state, and brought back to Texas for him to sell

If you couldn't already guess, I know the answer.




Curious, he was in Arizona for around 2 weeks, before July 20th.
The Acromyrmex video was uploaded on July 20th.

Ding ding ding!~ These Acromyrmex are from Arizona. Now, I already knew this, but what good is my word without a little evidence. There you have it. The Myrmecocystus that are "coming soon" on AntsEmporium were also collected in Arizona.

Now, I have heard claims by some of his supporters that he has a permit to collect a certain number of species in Arizona and bring them back to Texas. If this was true, why lie about the location on his video? The only way I'll believe that this is the case is if the permits are provided for us to see. Until then, I believe it's relatively clear that AntsEmporium is still very much participating in illegal ant trade, despite becoming a permit holder.

If you're still reading this, just know to avoid AntsEmporium if you can. There's still far too much uncertainty around the legality of the whole thing, so unless you're ok with supporting illegal trade, then know the permits are really just a tool for Garrett to use to get money out of people who won't buy his ants illegally.


Edited by CheetoLord02, February 3 2022 - 8:18 PM.

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#2 Offline Antkeeper01 - Posted August 9 2021 - 3:28 PM

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wait i asked around on discord to check out the permits they said they checked out it was arman who said that


Edited by Antkeeper01, August 9 2021 - 3:33 PM.

1X Pogonomyrmex occidentalis 40-50 Workers

1X Solenopsis molesta 10 Workers (mono)

Ants I Want: Crematogaster sp, Camponotus Sp., Ponera Pennsylvanica, Mymercocystus sp.

 

My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube....kUjx-dPFMyVqOLw

 

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#3 Offline AntBoi3030 - Posted August 9 2021 - 4:31 PM

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Thanks, I actually bought these about I week ago completely oblivious to the store possibly selling the ants illegally. The ants arrived WITHOUT live fungus (their was very little and it was dead and strewn across the container). He did ship me a replacement but I’m worried he may not refund me if this happens again. Thanks for the info I won’t be shopping there until he proves the legitimacy of his store.

Edited by AntBoi3030, August 9 2021 - 4:36 PM.

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My favorite queens/colony’s:
Pheidole Tysoni, Selonopis Molesta, Brachymyrmex Depilis, Tetramorium Immagrians, Prenolepis Imparis, Pheidole Bicirinata 


#4 Offline ANTdrew - Posted August 9 2021 - 4:41 PM

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This sickens me.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#5 Offline attagarrett - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:08 PM

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Hey Tyler,

I applaud your dedication and perseverance on these matters. It makes sense as an ant seller you would have great contest to anyone else selling ants, not only legally, but also to your current state of Arizona. As spoken by you “As some of you may know, recently a new ant store has popped up in the US by the name of AntsEmporium. Boasting an impressive selection of ant species with permits to sell them across a wide variety of US states, this seems like an amazing thing for the US antkeeping community. Being able to purchase exotic species legally is what everyone has wanted for so long now.” This is in fact amazing news and it shows that the hobby is moving in the right direction when it comes to rules, regulations, and permitting!

 

First and foremost I would love to address your concerns on the controversial topic of over collecting. We can start with Atta texana. In the wild Atta texana have undoubtedly one of the worst mortality rates of any ants. It is believed to be around a 99.99% failure rate. Which would allude to the need of collecting numerous queens to ensure optimal numbers when rearing in captivity. Furthermore, most of the queens were collected on pavement just before sunrise. These queens stood no chance of founding successfully as the Texas sun would have killed them.

 

Now let's switch topics to your unsubstantiated claims about not only my business but also my collecting. It is crazy to think I still need to justify having permits for collecting. Numerous influential people in the hobby have in fact confirmed my collecting permits as well as my selling permits. I would like to congratulate you on your detective skills and inferences as to where I collected some of my Myrmecocystus queens!  You are 100% correct. I caught Myrmecocystus mexicanus in Arizona and New Mexico along with plenty of other species! It's sad I was not able to show you some amazing spots while I was there despite my offers to you. Your statement “I believe it's relatively clear that AntsEmporium is still very much participating in illegal ant trade, despite becoming a permit holder. “ Is rather contradicting, I have all the necessary permits needed to collect the species that I am after. Something else that baffles me is your continued unsubstantiated claims that I am an illegal collector and or trader. 

If we take a look at your personal/company youtube channel we will see the following.

ceNROvYngHEEPo79JdOezBFI8aUq66nXGo2SOEYo

Now typically I am not one to get involved with other people's business, as what people do in their personal life is none of my concern, but for you Tyler I’ll make an exception. If you look at this screenshot from a video posted to your youtube channel you can clearly see, Myrmecia nigriceps, the Australian Bull Ant. Owning this ant puts you in violation of Title 7 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 330, also known as the USDA-APHIS PPQ-526 guidelines, not to mention the fact the ants were also taken and exported illegally from Australia at some point. Now it is our responsibility as a community to promote ethical ant keeping, and the public keeping of exotic ants is asking for more regulations and even potential fines. 

Is this responsible behavior for the store owner of arthropodantics.com to be doing? Showcasing illegal ants on their companies youtube page? 

 

Lastly, lets condemn these accusations of me being a scammer. 

Since the launching of AntsEmporium, we have helped hundreds of hobbyists obtain healthy ants. I’ve even sold to dozens of Formiculture users in the past week!

As stated above, he received his Acromyrmex in rough shape, instead of not following through on our live arrival guarantee. I immediately informed him of a new replacement being sent out. Is this the actions of a scammer? At AntsEmporium customer satisfaction is our number one priority. And our past, current and repeat customers have been nothing short of satisfied. Further slander of AntsEmporium LLC will result in legal action taken against you. 


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#6 Offline Vick09usmc - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:23 PM

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For what it is worth, my dad works as an incoming inspector for usda in cali checking incoming planes and cargo, I asked and he said that the permit checked out. As long as the species is in the list and the permit is included in the box. Also he said they're super understaffed and their main priority is the citrus Psillyd. Lastly he said they don't make too much a fuss about ants unless they come along with soil- mainly because the Argentines have already overrun every other ant species


Sent from my SM-G991U using Tapatalk

Edited by Vick09usmc, August 9 2021 - 5:57 PM.

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#7 Offline TennesseeAnts - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:27 PM

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I have no opinion on the legal matters stated. I would totally buy from AntsEmporium if it weren't for the prices. I do have one question for the store owner (user attagarret), though.

Why is it that you are able to ship Atta and Acromyrmex to more states than Camponotus discolor? I'm genuinely interested in what the process is here. 


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#8 Offline ZTYguy - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:36 PM

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I’m just gonna say. If you think he is a scam go look at Cocdeshijie’s Acromyrmex journal and think again.
Currently: Considering moving to Australia
Reason: Myrmecia

#9 Offline Ftorres - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:39 PM

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I too would like to give my two cents,
I recently got a few ants from Garret from Ants Emporium, me I am overall happy with my purchased.

I did not feel scammed, nor I feel like this guy has bad intentions, he even offer replacements for some of the ants that were not doing good.
This to me is costumer service, about the legal matters mentioned, I have to say I got a copy of the permit and that is plenty legal for me.

Just my two cents, I will continue learning and buying from Garret.

Thank you for reading this.
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#10 Offline cocdeshijie - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:41 PM

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I just got some Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came fine. 

 

Also apparently Acromyrmex do exist in El Paso: https://forum.antsca...pic.php?t=15557


誰でも大好き!well.....except a few

 

cocdeshijie’s Formicarium Guides: https://cocdeshijie....cfe2df393b517f7

Ants API: https://ants-api.qwq.xyz/


#11 Offline SleepyAsianAnter - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:49 PM

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My Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium came in good shape, all permits were inside the package, Garrett has also been extremely helpful on his discord server.



#12 Offline CheetoLord02 - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:53 PM

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I just got some Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came fine. 

 

Also apparently Acromyrmex do exist in El Paso: https://forum.antsca...pic.php?t=15557

except... that queen is trachymyrmex smithi, a common fungus grower in El Paso.


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#13 Offline cocdeshijie - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:55 PM

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I just got some Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came fine. 

 

Also apparently Acromyrmex do exist in El Paso: https://forum.antsca...pic.php?t=15557

except... that queen is trachymyrmex smithi, a common fungus grower in El Paso.

 

 

ok but still no record does not mean they don't exist there


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誰でも大好き!well.....except a few

 

cocdeshijie’s Formicarium Guides: https://cocdeshijie....cfe2df393b517f7

Ants API: https://ants-api.qwq.xyz/


#14 Offline AntBoi3030 - Posted August 9 2021 - 5:57 PM

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I just got some Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came fine. 
 
Also apparently Acromyrmex do exist in El Paso: https://forum.antsca...pic.php?t=15557

except... that queen is trachymyrmex smithi, a common fungus grower in El Paso.
 
ok but still no record does not mean they don't exist there
If you can catch a butt-ton of queens of that species I feel like they would be documented
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My favorite queens/colony’s:
Pheidole Tysoni, Selonopis Molesta, Brachymyrmex Depilis, Tetramorium Immagrians, Prenolepis Imparis, Pheidole Bicirinata 


#15 Offline CheetoLord02 - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:03 PM

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I just got some Acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came fine. 

 

Also apparently Acromyrmex do exist in El Paso: https://forum.antsca...pic.php?t=15557

except... that queen is trachymyrmex smithi, a common fungus grower in El Paso.

 

 

ok but still no record does not mean they don't exist there

 

El Paso is a city of almost 700,000 people. Acromyrmex are an extremely conspicuous ant that is easily noticed by even those who don't pay attention to ants. Surely one single iNaturalist observation would exist.

Not to mention, Dr. William Mackay works at UT El Paso and has extensively studied the region, and has never documented the species. I have even visited his collection of over 180,000 specimens and none of his Acromyrmex were from El Paso. I feel like between a renowned entomologist and almost 700,000 people, somebody would have noticed Acromyrmex versicolor.


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#16 Offline CheetoLord02 - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:10 PM

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Hey Tyler,

I applaud your dedication and perseverance on these matters. It makes sense as an ant seller you would have great contest to anyone else selling ants, not only legally, but also to your current state of Arizona. As spoken by you “As some of you may know, recently a new ant store has popped up in the US by the name of AntsEmporium. Boasting an impressive selection of ant species with permits to sell them across a wide variety of US states, this seems like an amazing thing for the US antkeeping community. Being able to purchase exotic species legally is what everyone has wanted for so long now.” This is in fact amazing news and it shows that the hobby is moving in the right direction when it comes to rules, regulations, and permitting!

 

First and foremost I would love to address your concerns on the controversial topic of over collecting. We can start with Atta texana. In the wild Atta texana have undoubtedly one of the worst mortality rates of any ants. It is believed to be around a 99.99% failure rate. Which would allude to the need of collecting numerous queens to ensure optimal numbers when rearing in captivity. Furthermore, most of the queens were collected on pavement just before sunrise. These queens stood no chance of founding successfully as the Texas sun would have killed them.

 

Now let's switch topics to your unsubstantiated claims about not only my business but also my collecting. It is crazy to think I still need to justify having permits for collecting. Numerous influential people in the hobby have in fact confirmed my collecting permits as well as my selling permits. I would like to congratulate you on your detective skills and inferences as to where I collected some of my Myrmecocystus queens!  You are 100% correct. I caught Myrmecocystus mexicanus in Arizona and New Mexico along with plenty of other species! It's sad I was not able to show you some amazing spots while I was there despite my offers to you. Your statement “I believe it's relatively clear that AntsEmporium is still very much participating in illegal ant trade, despite becoming a permit holder. “ Is rather contradicting, I have all the necessary permits needed to collect the species that I am after. Something else that baffles me is your continued unsubstantiated claims that I am an illegal collector and or trader. 

If we take a look at your personal/company youtube channel we will see the following.

ceNROvYngHEEPo79JdOezBFI8aUq66nXGo2SOEYo

Now typically I am not one to get involved with other people's business, as what people do in their personal life is none of my concern, but for you Tyler I’ll make an exception. If you look at this screenshot from a video posted to your youtube channel you can clearly see, Myrmecia nigriceps, the Australian Bull Ant. Owning this ant puts you in violation of Title 7 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 330, also known as the USDA-APHIS PPQ-526 guidelines, not to mention the fact the ants were also taken and exported illegally from Australia at some point. Now it is our responsibility as a community to promote ethical ant keeping, and the public keeping of exotic ants is asking for more regulations and even potential fines. 

Is this responsible behavior for the store owner of arthropodantics.com to be doing? Showcasing illegal ants on their companies youtube page? 

 

Lastly, lets condemn these accusations of me being a scammer. 

Since the launching of AntsEmporium, we have helped hundreds of hobbyists obtain healthy ants. I’ve even sold to dozens of Formiculture users in the past week!

As stated above, he received his Acromyrmex in rough shape, instead of not following through on our live arrival guarantee. I immediately informed him of a new replacement being sent out. Is this the actions of a scammer? At AntsEmporium customer satisfaction is our number one priority. And our past, current and repeat customers have been nothing short of satisfied. Further slander of AntsEmporium LLC will result in legal action taken against you. 

I never claim to not do illegal trade. Go ahead and use information that I post on my public sites as slander. That'll definitely work. The difference between you and I is that you attempt to hide your illegal doings by blatant lying.

I can't help but notice you make no attempt to refute the evidence that you lied about where you collected your Acromyrmex. I'll assume I hit the nail on the head there.

I've never personally had any evidence of you being a scammer, however the fact that 90% of people that know you by name know you as a scammer, I'll assume that title didn't come from nowhere. Maybe AntsEmporium isn't a scam site, I've yet to hear something bad about the site specifically. But what's a site but the person who runs it.

Show me that you have a permit to collect and bring species from Arizona to Texas *for the purpose of selling them* (don't hit me with that "educational use" that you have on the one permit you have, everyone knows you don't need thousands of Acromyrmex for educational purposes) and maybe, just maybe, I'll forgive you. But you don't need to lie about where you're finding your ants if you have proper permits, right?


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#17 Offline Antkeeper01 - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:13 PM

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Hey Tyler,

I applaud your dedication and perseverance on these matters. It makes sense as an ant seller you would have great contest to anyone else selling ants, not only legally, but also to your current state of Arizona. As spoken by you “As some of you may know, recently a new ant store has popped up in the US by the name of AntsEmporium. Boasting an impressive selection of ant species with permits to sell them across a wide variety of US states, this seems like an amazing thing for the US antkeeping community. Being able to purchase exotic species legally is what everyone has wanted for so long now.” This is in fact amazing news and it shows that the hobby is moving in the right direction when it comes to rules, regulations, and permitting!

 

First and foremost I would love to address your concerns on the controversial topic of over collecting. We can start with Atta texana. In the wild Atta texana have undoubtedly one of the worst mortality rates of any ants. It is believed to be around a 99.99% failure rate. Which would allude to the need of collecting numerous queens to ensure optimal numbers when rearing in captivity. Furthermore, most of the queens were collected on pavement just before sunrise. These queens stood no chance of founding successfully as the Texas sun would have killed them.

 

Now let's switch topics to your unsubstantiated claims about not only my business but also my collecting. It is crazy to think I still need to justify having permits for collecting. Numerous influential people in the hobby have in fact confirmed my collecting permits as well as my selling permits. I would like to congratulate you on your detective skills and inferences as to where I collected some of my Myrmecocystus queens!  You are 100% correct. I caught Myrmecocystus mexicanus in Arizona and New Mexico along with plenty of other species! It's sad I was not able to show you some amazing spots while I was there despite my offers to you. Your statement “I believe it's relatively clear that AntsEmporium is still very much participating in illegal ant trade, despite becoming a permit holder. “ Is rather contradicting, I have all the necessary permits needed to collect the species that I am after. Something else that baffles me is your continued unsubstantiated claims that I am an illegal collector and or trader. 

If we take a look at your personal/company youtube channel we will see the following.

ceNROvYngHEEPo79JdOezBFI8aUq66nXGo2SOEYo

Now typically I am not one to get involved with other people's business, as what people do in their personal life is none of my concern, but for you Tyler I’ll make an exception. If you look at this screenshot from a video posted to your youtube channel you can clearly see, Myrmecia nigriceps, the Australian Bull Ant. Owning this ant puts you in violation of Title 7 of the U.S. Code of Federal Regulations (CFR), Part 330, also known as the USDA-APHIS PPQ-526 guidelines, not to mention the fact the ants were also taken and exported illegally from Australia at some point. Now it is our responsibility as a community to promote ethical ant keeping, and the public keeping of exotic ants is asking for more regulations and even potential fines. 

Is this responsible behavior for the store owner of arthropodantics.com to be doing? Showcasing illegal ants on their companies youtube page? 

 

Lastly, lets condemn these accusations of me being a scammer. 

Since the launching of AntsEmporium, we have helped hundreds of hobbyists obtain healthy ants. I’ve even sold to dozens of Formiculture users in the past week!

As stated above, he received his Acromyrmex in rough shape, instead of not following through on our live arrival guarantee. I immediately informed him of a new replacement being sent out. Is this the actions of a scammer? At AntsEmporium customer satisfaction is our number one priority. And our past, current and repeat customers have been nothing short of satisfied. Further slander of AntsEmporium LLC will result in legal action taken against you. 

:mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad:  :mad: the only reason you are doing this is to get the attention off of yourself(please don't sue me)


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1X Pogonomyrmex occidentalis 40-50 Workers

1X Solenopsis molesta 10 Workers (mono)

Ants I Want: Crematogaster sp, Camponotus Sp., Ponera Pennsylvanica, Mymercocystus sp.

 

My Youtube channel: https://www.youtube....kUjx-dPFMyVqOLw

 

 Join Our Fledgling Discord Server https://discord.com/...089056687423489


#18 Offline AntBoi3030 - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:18 PM

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“Please don’t sue me” haha
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My favorite queens/colony’s:
Pheidole Tysoni, Selonopis Molesta, Brachymyrmex Depilis, Tetramorium Immagrians, Prenolepis Imparis, Pheidole Bicirinata 


#19 Offline B_rad0806 - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:19 PM

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I purchased my acromyrmex from AntsEmporium and they came in great shape
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#20 Offline ANTdrew - Posted August 9 2021 - 6:28 PM

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I do not support the shipping of these species around the country. Learn to appreciate your local ants.
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.





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