131 replies to this topic

[FeedTheAnts]

I may be crazy, but it looks like it would be a fun species to keep. I know many people who keep wasps, even vespula

I just caught a European Hornet queen yesterday. I intend on raising a colony. Right now she's in a large critter crawler with a smaller container inside that's lined with cardboard. I gave her various pieces of soft wood, and honey to drink. Fingers crossed!

[BugFinder]

 

 

don't kill me but mandarin hornets probably won't be too big of a deal imo.

why do you say that?

 

I truly can't see any negative effects besides potential harm to beekeepers, and even then the predation on honeybees is a boon to native bees. Just as an example, bumblebee populations are rapidly dying out due to a number of reasons, one of those being wild honeybees. Stings are simply painful, nests are easy to destroy, death from a sting is rare and honestly just as reasonable and rare as death from a bee sting. While it certainly is somewhat harmful to local businesses and can cause some discomfort to the people I just see them as a competitor to the invasive honeybees.

 

Can you share your source about feral honeybee populations harming native polinators?  I have never herad that claim made before.  TIA.

[Ants_Dakota]

I know a beekeeper, and if these hornets got into his hives, it would ruin his career. 

[Temperateants]

     I don't think this should be treated lightly. While honeybees are invasive, they provide jobs for about 125,000 people. And, they may kill people who are allergic. Its not like they are non-aggressive. If that were the case, they would not be a problem. If they are allowed to get a foothold, it could potentially ruin the lives of many people, and people would be less likely to go on outdoors activities, reducing sales in outdoor industries.This would result in a further loss in jobs. The also will not stop at invasives. I would almost be willing to bet they would go for natives as well.

that's just my two cents though. And I'm naturally biased against Vespines. But, I still don't think it is just something to shrug off. Would you want to go outside and be met with a hornet that will leave you in severe pain for hours?

I just don't like them because

1. They spread disease to native bees

2. They take more honey then they need (can someone corroborate that? It seems reasonable for an economically viable bug who makes honey)

3. They are really overrated. Everyone always peddles the environmental BS "wE nEeD bEeS" and talking about how honey bees are dying but these people really do not have a good understanding of the NA ecosystem and bees in general. Pollinating species of wasp, beetles and ants exist people! Also natives, solitary bees are underrated.

[BugFinder]

 

     I don't think this should be treated lightly. While honeybees are invasive, they provide jobs for about 125,000 people. And, they may kill people who are allergic. Its not like they are non-aggressive. If that were the case, they would not be a problem. If they are allowed to get a foothold, it could potentially ruin the lives of many people, and people would be less likely to go on outdoors activities, reducing sales in outdoor industries.This would result in a further loss in jobs. The also will not stop at invasives. I would almost be willing to bet they would go for natives as well.

that's just my two cents though. And I'm naturally biased against Vespines. But, I still don't think it is just something to shrug off. Would you want to go outside and be met with a hornet that will leave you in severe pain for hours?

I just don't like them because

1. They spread disease to native bees

2. They take more honey then they need (can someone corroborate that? It seems reasonable for an economically viable bug who makes honey)

3. They are really overrated. Everyone always peddles the environmental BS "wE nEeD bEeS" and talking about how honey bees are dying but these people really do not have a good understanding of the NA ecosystem and bees in general. Pollinating species of wasp, beetles and ants exist people! Also natives, solitary bees are underrated.

 

 

When you say "I don't like them" I'm interpreting you mean you don't like European Honey Bees.  Is that correct?   Do you mean feral honey bees, farmed honey bees, or both?

 

What do you mean "they take more honey than they need"?  Do you mean honeybees or the wasp that kills them?  I'm not sure what you are trying to say.

 

Your point about people not really understanding the honeybee, and proclaiming it to be necessary to be saved to protect the envioronment is solid.  People who make about North America that claim know little about bees, or the ecosystem.

 

The honey bee is in no danger of extinction.  Some of our native pollinators are.  That being said, if you know specific damage to the ecosystem that is caused by the honey bee I'd like to learn more about that.   As far as I know native pollinators are threated by loss of habitat, and pollution, but not by the honey bee..  

[NickAnter]

And, if all the honeybees all of a sudden did die, its not like they would be replaced immediately. It would take time, and there are not many insects that are anywhere near as effective as they are.

[Temperateants]

I mean commercial ones that are shipped around to cause disease and ones that outcompete native bees. They are protected, encouraged to breed, and are put into massive clumps. Surely this leaves less honey for natives? I didn't have a source, so take this with a grain of salt. 

not really what your looking for but https://www.newsweek...-notice-1232793

Edited by Temperateants, May 3 2020 - 12:36 PM.

[Temperateants]

And, if all the honeybees all of a sudden did die, its not like they would be replaced immediately. It would take time, and there are not many insects that are anywhere near as effective as they are.

Well, we sort of dug our own hole, but we could try to breed bumble bees? Or encourage solitary bee houses.

[ponerinecat]

https://www.frontier...2019.00060/full just one of a few examples.

And, if all the honeybees all of a sudden did die, its not like they would be replaced immediately. It would take time, and there are not many insects that are anywhere near as effective as they are.

Thing is that will not happen. A gradual decrease is most likely.

[ponerinecat]

https://journals.plo...al.pone.0189268 much more in depth one.

[BugFinder]

 

And, if all the honeybees all of a sudden did die, its not like they would be replaced immediately. It would take time, and there are not many insects that are anywhere near as effective as they are.

Well, we sort of dug our own hole, but we could try to breed bumble bees? Or encourage solitary bee houses.

 

 

Many people all over the country already creates pollinantor habitat in their yards and solitary bee houses already.   I really don't think honey bees are the problem to non social pollinator popuolations declining.

[BugFinder]

https://journals.plo...al.pone.0189268 much more in depth one.

That paper talks about wild bees and managed bees, I think they are only talking about honeybees, not other kinds of bees.

[gcsnelling]

The abstract specifically states native wild bees.

[ponerinecat]

 

https://journals.plo...al.pone.0189268 much more in depth one.

That paper talks about wild bees and managed bees, I think they are only talking about honeybees, not other kinds of bees.

 

Wild bees being native ones... third sentence states "native wild bees"

[TennesseeAnts]

Well, I guess the Vespa crabro might finally have some worthy competitors soon...

[Temperateants]

Those hornets are just giant ants that can sting and fly. Change my mind.

[TheMicroPlanet]

Those hornets are just giant ants that can sting and fly. Change my mind.

Most wasps don't have constricted petioles like ants.

[AntsDakota]

Those hornets are just giant ants that can sting and fly. Change my mind.

Many ants sting too.......... many species also are more venomous and painful.

[ponerinecat]

 

Those hornets are just giant ants that can sting and fly. Change my mind.

Most wasps don't have constricted petioles like ants.

 

Anatomical differences don't matter to someone unaware of them. To the common person they will just be another species of hornet, simply a larger and scarier version of the Vespa we have here. No matter how big or destructive pretty much all wasps will be hated by people for what appears to be unbridled hostility and a painful sting. Even if they lack the qualities that make wasps so hated by people, say potter wasps or cicada killers, they will still bear the reputation of their relatives.

[TheMicroPlanet]

 

 

Those hornets are just giant ants that can sting and fly. Change my mind.

Most wasps don't have constricted petioles like ants.

 

Anatomical differences don't matter to someone unaware of them. To the common person they will just be another species of hornet, simply a larger and scarier version of the Vespa we have here. No matter how big or destructive pretty much all wasps will be hated by people for what appears to be unbridled hostility and a painful sting. Even if they lack the qualities that make wasps so hated by people, say potter wasps or cicada killers, they will still bear the reputation of their relatives.

 

Don't take this the wrong way, but I fail to see the connection with your comment and mine, and why mine was taken in such seriousness. It didn't appear to me that Temperateants was being completely serious.