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Is there any evidence to support byFormica products claims about effectiveness?


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#1 Offline Subverted - Posted April 24 2017 - 3:24 PM

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I was wondering if anyone has any hard evidence or data to back up the claims being made by byFormica about some of their products...

 

Some of the claims about the preservative infused and dyed test tube water they recently came out with:


  • Reduce stress to ants and eliminate maintenance by providing water that resists spoilage
  • Use full-strength as a replacement for plain water in test tube founding nests to retard bacterial and fungal growth
  • The 100% insect-safe formula is an excellent source of vitamin C, making it a perfect replacement for water in liquid feeders.

Is there any evidence that this product really reduces colony stress levels or can inhibit bacterial as well as fungal growth? ]

 

How do we really know its an excellent source of vitamin C when the ingredient list only shows "water; less than 1% of the following: methyl paraben, sodium bicarbonate, blue #1".

 

Unless I am seriously mistaken none of those contain vitamin C...they are just water, methy paraben (a preservative), baking soda, and food dye so where is this supposed source of vitamin C?

 

Is there any data/evidence to support any of the claims made by byFormica about their products?

 


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#2 Offline Serafine - Posted April 24 2017 - 3:39 PM

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Reduce stress to ants and eliminate maintenance by providing water that resists spoilage

No mold = no need to change tubes and move colony = less stress. It's a bit simple but that's basically it.

Use full-strength as a replacement for plain water in test tube founding nests to retard bacterial and fungal growth

Methylparaben works very well, that's no secret. It has been used in fruit fly farms for years, if not decades.

The 100% insect-safe formula is an excellent source of vitamin C, making it a perfect replacement for water in liquid feeders.

Probably because the concentration is so low that it doesn't have to be listed.
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#3 Offline Subverted - Posted April 24 2017 - 4:43 PM

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Reduce stress to ants and eliminate maintenance by providing water that resists spoilage

No mold = no need to change tubes and move colony = less stress. It's a bit simple but that's basically it.



Interesting...I read that as two separate claims but I like your interpretation!
 

Methylparaben works very well, that's no secret. It has been used in fruit fly farms for years, if not decades.



Yes, I am very aware of both of those facts...I even say almost exactly that in my guide to making your own version of mold inhibiting test tube water here.

 

The 100% insect-safe formula is an excellent source of vitamin C, making it a perfect replacement for water in liquid feeders.

Probably because the concentration is so low that it doesn't have to be listed.


So we have established that he is selling water containing less than 1% active ingredients for $15 a bottle when you can buy a pound of the main active ingredient for $17 shipped to your door?

If my off the cuff math is correct you can make 25 of the 150ml bottles from a gallon of solution (1gal = 3785ml). Assuming you used a full 1% of the main active ingredient (please don't it is too much!) that would only take 37.85 grams of the main active ingredient, methylparaben, per gallon of distilled water you buy for about a dollar...

Lets say that all holds true...that would mean you can make about 12 gallons of this stuff or right around 300 of the 150ml bottles he is selling for $15 with one $17 purchase of methylparaben.

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Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

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#4 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 24 2017 - 6:09 PM

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Content removed by author.

Edited by drtrmiller, April 25 2017 - 5:06 PM.

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#5 Offline Subverted - Posted April 24 2017 - 6:17 PM

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Interesting response but not a lot of data there, Terry.

Do you have any data to back up your claims?
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Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

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#6 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 24 2017 - 6:26 PM

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Content removed by author.

Edited by drtrmiller, April 25 2017 - 5:07 PM.

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#7 Offline Subverted - Posted April 24 2017 - 6:34 PM

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You are welcome to feel that way, Terry, but when you are marking up methylparaben water to the degree that you are I cannot sit idly by and not question just how special your formulation is.

If you have some data to support that your product is better then I cannot imagine why you wouldn't share it with the world? Hardly a trade secret.
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#8 Offline FSTP - Posted April 25 2017 - 7:22 AM

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You much have similar feeling towards bottled water companies, lol. ;-)



#9 Offline Loops117 - Posted April 25 2017 - 7:56 AM

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I have been testing his formisazine since day 1 and have had nothing but success. I have 0 visual mold growth, and have had colonies move to a new formisazine filled tube within a short period. His claims have been conclusive with all of my testing, and i do believe that everything he says is true when it comes to this product. I havent had any species dislike or shy away from the formisazine, nor have i had any bad discoloring on my cotton. You can take my experience however you want, but i continuously came up with the same results. I have many queens and colonies using water and/or formisazine with 0 negative impact. I also have formisazine in galileo reservoirs for drinking, and my ants enjoy it very much.

 

didn't take long for these guys to jump ship. Left the smell and security of their home since day 1 for a new spot that they feel is a better fit. It's the same amount of cotton in the same diameter tube. These ants made a complete switch after 24 hrs.

 

20170403_192928.jpg

 

Loops


Edited by Loops117, April 25 2017 - 8:11 AM.

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#10 Offline Subverted - Posted April 25 2017 - 8:47 AM

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Do you have any data beyond a single anecdote that would support paying $15 for 150ml of something you can make over 100 gallons of for $17 shipped?
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Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

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#11 Offline T.C. - Posted April 25 2017 - 9:03 AM

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I just wanted to throw in my two cents on this whole deal. Take note I'm not here to take sides, or say whether Byformica's products do or don't serve the claimed purpose. Although, I have heard good things about the sun burst ant nectar, and I'm sure the formisazine does the job also. However, it appears according to those who have used the product, like loops here, it is doing what Terry claimed it to do.

As a consumer just trying to enjoy the ant keeping hobby, I will happily buy a product such as formisazine... assuming it does what it claims. Recently the thread, "Mold & Fungus resistant test tube water, a simple how to" was created. I assumed this was supposed to be a DIY, project to replace formisazine which I can assure everyone there is nothing wrong with it. There is a DIY, replacement to just about everything. I could build my own table, rather than buy one. I could make my own soap, rather than buy it. In the end I would much rather buy though.

I personally love this hobby, and a product such as formisazine will eliminate some of the chores that come with it. I only have two test tube set-ups at this point. And making the DIY formisazine replacement just wouldn't be ideal for such a small amount of tubes. The first ingredient alone, Methylparaben NF Powder costs more than the formisazine. Then of course you need the other necessities which I admit wouldn't be very difficult to come up with. But also, you have the time issue. I don't really have the time to make it, do the testing, and take the chance of the product not working properly in the end. I could just buy the formisazine with the click of a button, for cheaper, no work, delivered to my door ready to go, and with plenty of formisazine left over once I'm done. If the DIY project works then, no doubt this would be a better choice for those who have more than 20ish test tube setups. But, for a average ant keeping hobbyist with just a few test tube setups, such as myself then formisazine would without a question be more ideal.
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#12 Offline Subverted - Posted April 25 2017 - 9:10 AM

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And making the DIY formisazine replacement just wouldn't be ideal for such a small amount of tubes. The first ingredient alone, Methylparaben NF Powder costs more than the formisazine.


Thank you for bringing up both of those subjects. No matter how many tubes you have the price difference is simply too dramatic to ignore.

If you only have a couple tubes you could make up a gallon batch based on the guide I made over here and just let the bottle sit around (capped) until you need it again.

Next up lets talk about the material costs because those are certainly the most shocking part of this. For one investment of $17 to buy 1 pound (453g) of methylparaben you can make well over 100 gallons of solution.

Yes that's right with just one purchase of methylparaben for $17 you can make an equivalent to thousands of dollars worth of $15 150ml bottles.


Edited by Subverted, April 25 2017 - 9:11 AM.

My ants | My free feeder design | PM me if you need and 3d printing, cnc machining, or manufacturing done.

Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

"Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is." - Isaac Asimov


#13 Offline T.C. - Posted April 25 2017 - 9:25 AM

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And making the DIY formisazine replacement just wouldn't be ideal for such a small amount of tubes. The first ingredient alone, Methylparaben NF Powder costs more than the formisazine.

Thank you for bringing up both of those subjects. No matter how many tubes you have the price difference is simply too dramatic to ignore.
If you only have a couple tubes you could make up a gallon batch based on the guide I made over here and just let the bottle sit around (capped) until you need it again.
Next up lets talk about the material costs because those are certainly the most shocking part of this. For one investment of $17 to buy 1 pound (453g) of methylparaben you can make well over 100 gallons of solution.Yes that's right with just one purchase of methylparaben for $17 you can make an equivalent to thousands of dollars worth of $15 150ml bottles.

But you are missing my point. I would never even use the entire bottle of formisazine, let alone a whole gallon of this DIY stuff.I already addressed the issues, but here they are again. None the less, it would still cost me more, I would still have to make it, and take the chance of it not even working.

But I understand your point. The fact he is making it for so liitle, but I don't care how much profit he makes as long as the product does what it claims.

#14 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:12 AM

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Content removed by author.

Edited by drtrmiller, April 25 2017 - 5:07 PM.

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#15 Offline Subverted - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:17 AM

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That's great, Terry, I hope you sleep well at night profiteering like that! Congrats!

 

For anyone who doesnt feel like getting ripped off I am putting together a giveaway of one 3 gram packet of methylparaben for any interested USA based ant keepers.


Edited by Subverted, April 25 2017 - 10:18 AM.

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My ants | My free feeder design | PM me if you need and 3d printing, cnc machining, or manufacturing done.

Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

"Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is." - Isaac Asimov


#16 Offline Serafine - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:23 AM

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This thread is starting to get really silly...
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#17 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:26 AM

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Content removed by author.

Edited by drtrmiller, April 25 2017 - 5:07 PM.


#18 Offline Subverted - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:32 AM

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How is it not a good faith attempt to help people by giving them what they need for free? :thinking:

 

I honestly believe that this stuff is so simple to make to get equivalent results that I can not stay silent when the price difference between materials and the actual mixture (99% water!) is so dramatic.

 

You simply add in 2 to 3 grams of methylparaben per gallon of water. Yes its really that easy, check it out! http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/


My ants | My free feeder design | PM me if you need and 3d printing, cnc machining, or manufacturing done.

Make your own mold/fungus/bacteria resistant test tube water! Don't get ripped off! Read my simple guide: http://www.formicult...-simple-how-to/

"Self-education is, I firmly believe, the only kind of education there is." - Isaac Asimov


#19 Offline XZero38 - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:38 AM

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Sub where is your evidence on the fact that your DIY issue works?


Edited by XZero38, April 25 2017 - 10:39 AM.

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#20 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 25 2017 - 10:40 AM

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Content removed by author.

Edited by drtrmiller, April 25 2017 - 5:07 PM.





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