Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

Natural nests?


  • Please log in to reply
35 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 5 2015 - 12:18 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

I know that in the united states, the ant keeping community normally stay's clear away from dirt nests. Although there are some exceptions, for the most part, the online community in the U.S. houses their ants in artificial setups.

 

Though this site ( http://queenant.proboards.com) has made me realize, that natural nests might just be the way to go.. Now we all know the downsides to natural nest: It can be hard to see them. They are hard to hydrate. That's the old way of doing things...

 

Well many journal's on this site have people using natural nests. The ants seem a lot more prolific, and they LOVE digging in the dirt. Some people there just have a tank full of dirt, with plants and intricate decor This would be a good idea for large colonies. If you have a large Solenopsis invicta, or geminata, or whatever... All you see is ants, and brood, and more ants. You never really see the queen. So why not give them what they want? 

 

I know natural nest's aren't very popular, but you almost have to with some species, such as Pogonomyrmex, Carebara diversus, myrmecocystus, Ponera, Paraponera, Formica rufa group, underground lasius sp, and many more. 

 

One of the dirt nests recomended there was a product called "Worm World" ( http://www.amazon.co...PGHKFXF9YQEP931I am thinking about getting one, and housing my Aphaenogaster tennesseensis colony. 

 

So what do you guys think about natural nests? Love 'em or hate 'em? 

 


  • Jonathan21700 and AntsTexas like this

#2 Offline dermy - Posted June 5 2015 - 12:27 PM

dermy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • LocationCanada

I've never used them to be honest with you but I am currently thinking about doing it for my large Myrmica colony, because I never see the queens much and I want to experince them making their own nests are like.



#3 Offline dean_k - Posted June 5 2015 - 12:27 PM

dean_k

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 845 posts
  • LocationWaterown, Ontario, Canada

Yeah, I know that many UK anting guy use wormworld. The same company makes antworld but it's too narrow and ironically wormworld is far better for ants.

 

It's an inexpensive way to have a dirt nest and there are no doubt that some species do need dirt nest to thrive. For Aphaenogaster, yes, I do recommend a dirt based nest.

 

I don't love or hate dirt setup. If I feel a colony I have needs it in order to thrive, I shall give it to them.

 

Edit: The company site. http://www.interplay...orld/worm-world


Edited by dean_k, June 5 2015 - 12:28 PM.


#4 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted June 5 2015 - 12:50 PM

Jonathan21700

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 807 posts

I prefer natural nests with substrate painted walls for ground dwelling ants and  carved from wood nests for tree nesting species. I say yes for a natural nest (y)


Edited by Jonathan21700, June 5 2015 - 12:53 PM.


#5 Offline dspdrew - Posted June 5 2015 - 1:19 PM

dspdrew
  • LocationSanta Ana, CA

I have been using natural nests a lot lately.



#6 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 5 2015 - 1:35 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Yeah, I have seen. Do you mind telling us how you like them? I especially like the one you just got for your Pogonomyrmex californicus!



#7 Offline William. T - Posted June 5 2015 - 2:02 PM

William. T

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 725 posts
  • LocationWestern Maryland

I know that in the united states, the ant keeping community normally stay's clear away from dirt nests. Although there are some exceptions, for the most part, the online community in the U.S. houses their ants in artificial setups.

 

Though this site ( http://queenant.proboards.com) has made me realize, that natural nests might just be the way to go.. Now we all know the downsides to natural nest: It can be hard to see them. They are hard to hydrate. That's the old way of doing things...

 

Well many journal's on this site have people using natural nests. The ants seem a lot more prolific, and they LOVE digging in the dirt. Some people there just have a tank full of dirt, with plants and intricate decor This would be a good idea for large colonies. If you have a large Solenopsis invicta, or geminata, or whatever... All you see is ants, and brood, and more ants. You never really see the queen. So why not give them what they want? 

 

I know natural nest's aren't very popular, but you almost have to with some species, such as Pogonomyrmex, Carebara diversus, myrmecocystus, Ponera, Paraponera, Formica rufa group, underground lasius sp, and many more. 

 

One of the dirt nests recomended there was a product called "Worm World" ( http://www.amazon.co...PGHKFXF9YQEP931I am thinking about getting one, and housing my Aphaenogaster tennesseensis colony. 

 

So what do you guys think about natural nests? Love 'em or hate 'em? 

I really can't get a good substrate to showcase T. Sessile. There is dirt, of course, but T. Sessile is pitch black. Sand will collapse too.


Species I keep:

 

1 Lasius cf. Neoniger 30 workers

1 Camponotus sp. 15 workers

20 Tetramorium SpE 30 workers

1 T. Sessile 200 workers

 


#8 Offline Foogoo - Posted June 5 2015 - 2:15 PM

Foogoo

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,161 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, CA

Maybe Miles can shed some light on this, but how were Ray Mendez or some of the other successful desert ant nests constructed? I found one link of Ray's Pogonomyrmex nest constructed from "dental plaster". Is there anything special about his from typical homemade nests?


Camponotus vicinus, Crematogaster 1, Crematogaster 2, Formica francoeuri, *, *, Myrmecocystus testaceus, Novomessor cockerelli, Pheidole hyatti, Pogonomyrmex californicus, Pogonomyrmex rugosus, Solenopsis invicta


#9 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 5 2015 - 2:17 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Here is an informative video from MrIlovetheants

 

 


Edited by Ants4fun, June 5 2015 - 2:17 PM.

  • Foogoo likes this

#10 Offline drtrmiller - Posted June 5 2015 - 3:23 PM

drtrmiller

    Vendor

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,714 posts

Soil nests are a lazy excuse for people who don't have the talent or patience to create optimal living conditions for ants to thrive in a pre-formed nest.

 

The whole point of a formicarium is to be able to see the ants clearly, and to be able to intervene and perform maintenance if there is a problem.  You can't do either of these things with most soil nests.


  • dermy and AntsTexas like this


byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
byFormica ant products always deliver consistent performance, convenience,
and reliability, making them among the most beloved ant foods and kit enjoyed by
ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#11 Offline dspdrew - Posted June 5 2015 - 3:30 PM

dspdrew
  • LocationSanta Ana, CA

Soil nests are a lazy excuse for people who don't have the talent or patience to create optimal living conditions for ants to thrive in a pre-formed nest.

 

:lol:



#12 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 5 2015 - 4:02 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Soil nests are a lazy excuse for people who don't have the talent or patience to create optimal living conditions for ants to thrive in a pre-formed nest.

 

The whole point of a formicarium is to be able to see the ants clearly, and to be able to intervene and perform maintenance if there is a problem.  You can't do either of these things with most soil nests.

 

dspdrew, where is the dislike button? 

 

 

I highly disagree. The point of a formicarium is to observe ants, and simulate their natural environment as possible. It is to observe how they do important functions, like nest maintenance, and their relationships with other biological organisms. If you think that the purpose for keeping ants is so that they can "thrive in a pre-formed nest" Then you are missing the point. It's not all about bringing the ants out of the wild, it's about bringing the wild to the ants. This is a very viable option for a formicarium. Will there be sacrifices? Yes. Is it worth it? I think that for certain sp. yes. 


Edited by Ants4fun, June 5 2015 - 4:03 PM.

  • Jonathan21700 likes this

#13 Offline drtrmiller - Posted June 5 2015 - 4:35 PM

drtrmiller

    Vendor

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,714 posts

We'll have to agree to disagree.

 

But don't twist my words—I never said the purpose of a formicarium was to have ants thrive in a pre-formed nest.  A formicarium of any kind, including pre-formed or soil nests, is simply a tool.  My idea of an ideal formicarium is one that allows unimpeded visibility of the ants living both inside and outside the nest, while also closely emulating the environmental conditions (such as thermal, hydro, hygro, and other gradients) conducive to colony development.  There are limits to what you can observe, and therefore what you can learn, by looking at a box of dirt.

 

If you extrapolate your analogy of soil nests for ants to habitats for fish, then are you suggesting that we should all dump our goldfish into a hole in the backyard, rather than putting them in a nice aquarium where they may be easily observed?  After all, a hole or small pond is more similar to the fish's natural habitat, and still allows one to observe their activities, albeit to a limited extent, is it not?

 

But no one calls a hole in the ground an aquarium—and likewise a box of dirt can not be called or regarded as a formicarium.  So call it what it is—a box of dirt is a tool for primarily rearing ant colonies and observing their activities outside the nest. While there may be some advantages, disadvantages, and similarities in function to even the best pre-formed nests available, a dirt box will always be an apples to oranges comparison, and will never be a replacement for a formicarium where the intent is to observe the ants.


Edited by drtrmiller, June 5 2015 - 4:37 PM.



byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
byFormica ant products always deliver consistent performance, convenience,
and reliability, making them among the most beloved ant foods and kit enjoyed by
ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#14 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 5 2015 - 5:03 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota
I still enjoy pre-formed nests a lot, however I feel that the ideal ant formicarium would simulate the ants natural surroundings. I do apreciated your resent line of formicariums, as at least there is some natural features such as real wood and It has a very natural setting, unlike one such ones such as the omni nest. I guess the constant battle of high visibility yet very natural setting is a hard one. I still believe that dirt nests still are a very viable formicarium.

Edited by Ants4fun, June 5 2015 - 5:06 PM.


#15 Offline William. T - Posted June 5 2015 - 6:36 PM

William. T

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 725 posts
  • LocationWestern Maryland

I still enjoy pre-formed nests a lot, however I feel that the ideal ant formicarium would simulate the ants natural surroundings. I do apreciated your resent line of formicariums, as at least there is some natural features such as real wood and It has a very natural setting, unlike one such ones such as the omni nest. I guess the constant battle of high visibility yet very natural setting is a hard one. I still believe that dirt nests still are a very viable formicarium.

Why not a hybrid? Have some substrate, like plastic sand, in a preformed nest, offering most of the best of the two worlds. I find my subterranean yellow Lasius fine with sand or dirt in my test tubes, while they die without it, and surprisingly they didn't cover much of the view at all.


  • Jonathan21700 likes this

Species I keep:

 

1 Lasius cf. Neoniger 30 workers

1 Camponotus sp. 15 workers

20 Tetramorium SpE 30 workers

1 T. Sessile 200 workers

 


#16 Offline drtrmiller - Posted June 5 2015 - 6:43 PM

drtrmiller

    Vendor

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,714 posts

Indeed, allowing ants in a pre-formed nest a small amount of substrate allows them to shape their nest space and nest entrances in much the same way as one may find under a rock or in a small crevice in a natural setting.

 

 

It only takes a pinch, however, and benefits horizontal lying formicaries more than vertical ones.


Edited by drtrmiller, June 5 2015 - 6:44 PM.

  • Jonathan21700 likes this


byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
byFormica ant products always deliver consistent performance, convenience,
and reliability, making them among the most beloved ant foods and kit enjoyed by
ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#17 Offline dspdrew - Posted June 5 2015 - 8:10 PM

dspdrew
  • LocationSanta Ana, CA

...and likewise a box of dirt can not be called or regarded as a formicarium.

 

Now I'm going to make sure I always call it a formicarium. :snicker:


  • Ants4fun likes this

#18 Offline BrittonLS - Posted June 5 2015 - 9:48 PM

BrittonLS

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 284 posts
  • LocationFt. Worth, Texas

Soil nests are a lazy excuse for people who don't have the talent or patience to create optimal living conditions for ants to thrive in a pre-formed nest.

 

The whole point of a formicarium is to be able to see the ants clearly, and to be able to intervene and perform maintenance if there is a problem.  You can't do either of these things with most soil nests.

 

I really wanted to say: "Terry would tell you..." but then I realized of course he was going to come tell everyone. 

 

He's just afraid he'll be put out of business by boxes of dirt.

 

But really. I don't know about the debate of the word 'formicarium' but it all depends on how you want to keep your ants. If you want your ants to be pets, something you take care of, maintain, observe and have fun with, you want to see your ants and visibility will probably be important. If simply raising a colony is what you want to do, perhaps a 'natural' nest may prove beneficial and you can provide what service you can to the ants. Though having a nest without visibility has the caveat of taking all the control out of your hands if your ants somehow become imperiled or it will be difficult to get feedback on how they are actually thriving in their environment. I don't think I'd mind having a completely natural nest that just exists, but only maybe if I also had other ant colonies in 'proper formicariums.'



#19 Offline dermy - Posted June 6 2015 - 4:10 PM

dermy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,392 posts
  • LocationCanada

 

Soil nests are a lazy excuse for people who don't have the talent or patience to create optimal living conditions for ants to thrive in a pre-formed nest.

 

The whole point of a formicarium is to be able to see the ants clearly, and to be able to intervene and perform maintenance if there is a problem.  You can't do either of these things with most soil nests.

 

I really wanted to say: "Terry would tell you..." but then I realized of course he was going to come tell everyone. 

 

He's just afraid he'll be put out of business by boxes of dirt.

 

 

 

:lol: Yep better watch out people are going to start selling new Formicariums called the Dirt Box!


  • Jonathan21700 likes this

#20 Offline Ants4fun - Posted June 6 2015 - 4:28 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Unfortunately it is really hard to get a quality dirt formicarium. All of the good ones are in europe...






0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users