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The Experimental Process of Creating Multispecies Ant Colonies

multispecies colony multispecies

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111 replies to this topic

#81 Offline Chickalo - Posted January 20 2021 - 11:39 AM

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i’m not experienced at all but chickalo definitely isn’t either

i don't mean experienced but like knowledgeable, you know?
Even though you keep ants and somewhat experienced with just keeping ants doesn't mean you could perfectly recreate that, you can try to make by Cheebo, btone, etc. supervising but it is just easier for them making the video by themselves.
sorry, but could you re-write that or something cause that made no sense to me whatsoever
Good?

 

yeah but i might ask cheebo for help, maybe arban too, don't know about btone tho, I've heard he's abit wack.  Echbo might be helpfull, too


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#82 Offline Kaelwizard - Posted January 20 2021 - 12:08 PM

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"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." -- Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park (1993).

The lack of discussion about the ethics of this project is alarming. As an entomologist, I'd encourage a dash more humility and reflection as people proceed down this path. That is not to say that I don't understand the excitement, or even some of the merit of the experiments.

I was thinking the same thing but things like this tend to create some drama so I didn’t want to bring it up in case it spurred an argument.

 

And we're not working with gant prehistoric reptilian creatures.

 

And what does that have to do with anything? Just curious.



#83 Offline ZTYguy - Posted January 20 2021 - 12:17 PM

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"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." -- Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park (1993).

The lack of discussion about the ethics of this project is alarming. As an entomologist, I'd encourage a dash more humility and reflection as people proceed down this path. That is not to say that I don't understand the excitement, or even some of the merit of the experiments.

I was thinking the same thing but things like this tend to create some drama so I didn’t want to bring it up in case it spurred an argument.

 

And we're not working with gant prehistoric reptilian creatures.

 

And what does that have to do with anything? Just curious.

 

If your asking me, he quoted a jurrasic park film so i stated the obvious to lighten the mood.


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#84 Offline Kaelwizard - Posted January 20 2021 - 12:41 PM

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"Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether or not they could, they didn't stop to think if they should." -- Ian Malcom, Jurassic Park (1993).

The lack of discussion about the ethics of this project is alarming. As an entomologist, I'd encourage a dash more humility and reflection as people proceed down this path. That is not to say that I don't understand the excitement, or even some of the merit of the experiments.

I was thinking the same thing but things like this tend to create some drama so I didn’t want to bring it up in case it spurred an argument.
And we're not working with gant prehistoric reptilian creatures.
And what does that have to do with anything? Just curious.
If your asking me, he quoted a jurrasic park film so i stated the obvious to lighten the mood.
I thought you were replying to me since you quoted what I said as well. Sorry for not realizing. I forgot he quoted that honestly.
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#85 Offline SleepyAsianAnter - Posted January 20 2021 - 5:18 PM

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so... the reason we do these experiments is to see how ants might cooperate between different species, or even genus to have more workforce in the wild right? 

No the reason we do this is because multi-genus colonies are pretty damn cool. I don't think white vinegar is available commonly in the wild to bathe in


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#86 Offline Amatty76 - Posted January 20 2021 - 5:22 PM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.


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#87 Offline madbiologist - Posted January 20 2021 - 8:51 PM

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In my opinion, studying the possibility of multispecies colonies is a good way to learn more about how colony scent develops, if/how colony scents are different in different genera/subfamilies, and how environment affects colony scent.

As for the ethical issue of dunking ants in vinegar, I don't see a problem with it for two reasons.

A. It does not harm the ants in any way, unless you consider the removal of their scent harmful, which is the whole goal of the dunking.

B. Vinegar has long been used as a way to introduce parasitic queens to colonies. In a way, this project just expands on that.

I do agree, however, that this isn't a process that should be taken lightly. We don't even know for sure whether our methods can create multispecies colonies, and even if they can, there's almost certainly going to be a risk of death for the ants involved. I don't want to encourage anyone to risk their colonies for something like this, and I don't recommend it.

If we even are successful, we have to consider the possibilities if such a colony was released into the environment and was capable of outcompeting native ants.

This thread wasn't created with the idea of encouraging others to attempt colonies like this, but instead as a way to document our findings.

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#88 Offline Chickalo - Posted January 21 2021 - 4:57 AM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.

wow matty-chan you're so brilliant


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How's your day?  :)


#89 Offline AleeGuy - Posted January 21 2021 - 5:35 AM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.

wow matty-chan you're so brilliant
Let's not sh*tpost in this thread.

Edited by AleeGuy, January 21 2021 - 5:35 AM.


#90 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted January 21 2021 - 5:40 AM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.

wow matty-chan you're so brilliant
Let's not sh*tpost in this thread.

 

I don't think you understand what adding -chan to the end of a word means... its just japanese...


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We don’t talk about that

#91 Offline Chickalo - Posted January 21 2021 - 5:51 AM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.

wow matty-chan you're so brilliant
Let's not sh*tpost in this thread.

 

I don't think you understand what adding -chan to the end of a word means... its just japanese...

 

chan references a female or a child of any gender (i thunk atleast)


How's your day?  :)


#92 Offline Fatatoille - Posted January 21 2021 - 6:23 AM

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Just make a vinegar bath for your local ants.

wow matty-chan you're so brilliant
Let's not sh*tpost in this thread.

 

I don't think you understand what adding -chan to the end of a word means... its just japanese...

 

chan references a female or a child of any gender (i thunk atleast)

 

I'm failing to see how any of this is necessary is to this thread. The whole point of the topic was to describe and document the experimentation of making multi-species colonies and questions surrounding it, not making comments regarding the meaning of certain Japanese suffixes, and only serves to make more clutter if you are not even certain of what it means. If you wish to agree or show appreciation for a certain users opinion, liking the post that you agree with pretty much summarises everything you need to say instead of derailing a topic. This is a forum thread, not a discord server.


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#93 Offline Chickalo - Posted January 21 2021 - 6:28 AM

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yeah but tbh I'm actually curious on what would happen if i mixed species in the wild like took a queen, did the ol' vinegar stuff, then put her in another queens claustral chamber and wait a few years to see if a mix colony comes out


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#94 Offline AntsDakota - Posted January 21 2021 - 6:44 AM

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yeah but tbh I'm actually curious on what would happen if i mixed species in the wild like took a queen, did the ol' vinegar stuff, then put her in another queens claustral chamber and wait a few years to see if a mix colony comes out

That is not relatively to Fatatoile’s statement, and avoids the point Fatatole brought up. And he’s right, this is a forum and not a Discord server. A forum is support to be a formal environment, and treating it like a Discord server wrecks the whole purpose of it.

Edited by AntsDakota, January 21 2021 - 6:49 AM.

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"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#95 Offline ArmansAnts - Posted January 21 2021 - 6:46 AM

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If you have nothing to add to the thread there isn't really a reason to add a reply, if you just wanna chat about this stuff the Discord would be preferable. Maybe we'll add something like a FAQ eventually. 


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#96 Offline Chickalo - Posted January 21 2021 - 10:56 AM

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yeah but tbh I'm actually curious on what would happen if i mixed species in the wild like took a queen, did the ol' vinegar stuff, then put her in another queens claustral chamber and wait a few years to see if a mix colony comes out

That is not relatively to Fatatoile’s statement, and avoids the point Fatatole brought up. And he’s right, this is a forum and not a Discord server. A forum is support to be a formal environment, and treating it like a Discord server wrecks the whole purpose of it.

yeah ik (also i wish i could access discord at the time)


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#97 Offline Nare - Posted March 20 2021 - 6:25 PM

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Well I guess I'm dragging this back from the dead.

 

I was out checking out the exsecta-group formica mounds today, and the ants are starting to wake up. Anyhow, I brought home a specimen (worker) for ID (pretty sure it's exsectoides), and didn't really know what to do with it once I'd finished my ID. I remembered hearing about this, and figured maybe I'd try introduce the exsectoides worker to one of my parasite colonies with this method.

 

Dunked the worker in name brand white vinegar for 15 seconds on the clock, placed it on a piece of tissue paper to dry off, and then offered it to my Formica subnitens colony, which has the one subnitens queen, 2 or 3 pacifica workers, and 1 fusca-group worker.

 

Needless to say, it was somewhat shocking to see probably the most aggressive ant in my area as docile as a lamb.

 

20210320-215357.jpg

 

2 or 3 hours in and I've seen it share food with one of the pacifica workers. For all intents and purposes this ant appears to now be one of the family. (Actually as of writing this I just watched it share food with the subnitens queen - exciting stuff)

 

Now I will gladly discuss the ethics of waterboarding ants in acid, and I can totally see how people think making multi-genera colonies just for the heck of it is frivolous and ethically wrong.

 

But I would like to propose that this method offers a quick and easy way to introduce Formica hosts to Formica parasites, with no need for brood (which in the city is worth its weight in gold and only actually around for maybe a third of the year). Additionally, it offers a humane method for "disposing" of Formica ID specimens when you're done with them, as long as you have a Formica colony.

 

Now I totally get that this is all preliminary and that the worker is by no means home free just yet. I intend to keep an eye on things and see if the worker suffers any ill effects from the vinegar or if aggression develops within the colony.

 

But if not, as I said, this could be a valuable way to provide hosts to Formica parasites (and Lasius parasites too I guess, if you're into those  :/ ).

 

Thoughts?


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#98 Offline Manitobant - Posted March 20 2021 - 6:53 PM

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Well I guess I'm dragging this back from the dead.
 
I was out checking out the exsecta-group formica mounds today, and the ants are starting to wake up. Anyhow, I brought home a specimen (worker) for ID (pretty sure it's exsectoides), and didn't really know what to do with it once I'd finished my ID. I remembered hearing about this, and figured maybe I'd try introduce the exsectoides worker to one of my parasite colonies with this method.
 
Dunked the worker in name brand white vinegar for 15 seconds on the clock, placed it on a piece of tissue paper to dry off, and then offered it to my Formica subnitens colony, which has the one subnitens queen, 2 or 3 pacifica workers, and 1 fusca-group worker.
 
Needless to say, it was somewhat shocking to see probably the most aggressive ant in my area as docile as a lamb.
 
20210320-215357.jpg
 
2 or 3 hours in and I've seen it share food with one of the pacifica workers. For all intents and purposes this ant appears to now be one of the family. (Actually as of writing this I just watched it share food with the subnitens queen - exciting stuff)
 
Now I will gladly discuss the ethics of waterboarding ants in acid, and I can totally see how people think making multi-genera colonies just for the heck of it is frivolous and ethically wrong.
 
But I would like to propose that this method offers a quick and easy way to introduce Formica hosts to Formica parasites, with no need for brood (which in the city is worth its weight in gold and only actually around for maybe a third of the year). Additionally, it offers a humane method for "disposing" of Formica ID specimens when you're done with them, as long as you have a Formica colony.
 
Now I totally get that this is all preliminary and that the worker is by no means home free just yet. I intend to keep an eye on things and see if the worker suffers any ill effects from the vinegar or if aggression develops within the colony.
 
But if not, as I said, this could be a valuable way to provide hosts to Formica parasites (and Lasius parasites too I guess, if you're into those  :/ ).
 
Thoughts?

i did this the other day and successfully introduced hosts to a lasius claviger queen. No deaths surprisingly.

#99 Offline AnthonyP163 - Posted March 20 2021 - 7:54 PM

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Well I guess I'm dragging this back from the dead.

 

I was out checking out the exsecta-group formica mounds today, and the ants are starting to wake up. Anyhow, I brought home a specimen (worker) for ID (pretty sure it's exsectoides), and didn't really know what to do with it once I'd finished my ID. I remembered hearing about this, and figured maybe I'd try introduce the exsectoides worker to one of my parasite colonies with this method.

 

Dunked the worker in name brand white vinegar for 15 seconds on the clock, placed it on a piece of tissue paper to dry off, and then offered it to my Formica subnitens colony, which has the one subnitens queen, 2 or 3 pacifica workers, and 1 fusca-group worker.

 

Needless to say, it was somewhat shocking to see probably the most aggressive ant in my area as docile as a lamb.

 

20210320-215357.jpg

 

2 or 3 hours in and I've seen it share food with one of the pacifica workers. For all intents and purposes this ant appears to now be one of the family. (Actually as of writing this I just watched it share food with the subnitens queen - exciting stuff)

 

Now I will gladly discuss the ethics of waterboarding ants in acid, and I can totally see how people think making multi-genera colonies just for the heck of it is frivolous and ethically wrong.

 

But I would like to propose that this method offers a quick and easy way to introduce Formica hosts to Formica parasites, with no need for brood (which in the city is worth its weight in gold and only actually around for maybe a third of the year). Additionally, it offers a humane method for "disposing" of Formica ID specimens when you're done with them, as long as you have a Formica colony.

 

Now I totally get that this is all preliminary and that the worker is by no means home free just yet. I intend to keep an eye on things and see if the worker suffers any ill effects from the vinegar or if aggression develops within the colony.

 

But if not, as I said, this could be a valuable way to provide hosts to Formica parasites (and Lasius parasites too I guess, if you're into those  :/ ).

 

Thoughts?

That's awesome. I've been doing that with Lasius recently since I am finally getting my hands on some hosts and queens, and it's been going well so far.


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#100 Offline LucaHakase - Posted July 17 2021 - 5:14 PM

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I guess I'll post my attempt at Multispecies. 
After getting some Monomorium and Solenopsis and some failed multispecies expirements, I decided to do something very dumb. That thing was putting Monomorium and Solenopsis together. I dumped the solenopsis in vinegar and dropped her into the Monomorium's tube. Surprisingly, no anger was shown. Day one and parts of Day two, the Monomorium or Solenopsis were out exploring the tube, rarely making contact. For the rest of Day 2, until now, they have been staying near eachother under a bit of raised cotton. I saw them grooming eachother every so often. On Day Three, I fed them some honey and saw them comitting trophollaxis, so that was a good sign for me.
IMG_5614.JPG
IMG_5616.JPG

Horrible Pics


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