Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

The species best suited for captivity


  • Please log in to reply
72 replies to this topic

Poll: The species best suited for captivity (29 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you agree or disagree with my opinion?

  1. Voted Agree (10 votes [34.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.48%

  2. Disagree (19 votes [65.52%])

    Percentage of vote: 65.52%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#41 Offline Spazmops - Posted December 7 2020 - 9:17 PM

Spazmops

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

 

 

I absolutely disagree that Pogonomyrmex occidentalis are the perfect ant for captivity. Not even close.
They have a sting, and not one to scoff at. They're also very aggressive. For an inexperienced keeper stings may be commonplace when cleaning outworlds or moving colonies to new formicaria.
They have a specialized diet. Seeds are one of the easier specialized diets to support, but it's still something that needs to be considered by the keeper.
They have extremely small social stomachs, meaning that feedings need to be consistent and frequent. The only way this is partially negated is with a healthy seed cache in the nest, and even that's not perfect.
Being from a primarily temperate climate, they may require a period of diapause that may be difficult for inexperienced keepers. Sometimes they can keep going through the winter with heating, but this is not consistent.
Being the only deregulated species, they have a far wider market of buyers, so prices are able to be increased drastically to match the demand.
Queens are semiclaustral, which may cause issues for a beginner antkeeper if catching or purchasing a solo queen.
They have a restricted distribution. For keepers in the east the only option is to purchase a likely overpriced colony.
Being unable to grip smooth surfaces, many formicaria, particularly acrylic are unsuitable for these ants. This is a huge downside since many cheap formicaria that appeal to inexperienced keepers are acrylic.
These ants require heat. Heating a colony may seem trivial for an experienced keeper, but an inexperienced keeper may overheat a colony or cause flooding with improper use of a heating cable or mat.
In my opinion, something like a Lasius species or Pheidole (specifically bicarinata and pilifera) are much better.
The former Lasius are easy to catch, and while diapause may be difficult, other than that they are very easy. They have a generalist diet and don't require any heating or special formicaria.
The latter Pheidole may be more difficult to catch, however their extremely widespread distribution means they can be caught in almost every state. They are extremely easy, and while they like seeds, they aren't totally necessary. They also don't require hibernation and grow fast, meaning they are very rewarding to keep.
I would say something like a Camponotus species is a contender, but their slow growth can be discouraging to keepers, and also colonies seem fragile in the wrong hands. Still, better than Pogonomyrmex by a long shot.

All very good points. In my opinion, a diet of fresh insects is more specialized than seeds, seeing as chia seeds and many other types can be found at most grocery stores. I guess my criteria were what species requires the least amount of maintenance, and out of my (admittedly, limited) collection P. occidentalis are the ants that I worry least about, because as long as they have a seed store they're eating well.

Also keep in mind that Pogonomyrmex don't just eat seeds... while this is a large part of their diet, they require occasional sugary treats, as well as a LIVE insect or two for large colonies. They can't thrive with just seeds... this is another thing that could be hard to doing you are a beginner, finding these specific foods.

 

I know, I have a Pogonomyrmex colony. It may not be the best diet for them, but it is the vast majority of their diet, and it can be bought at a grocery store which isn’t a very common trait. Cheeto may be right about Atta; it seems like those beat Pogonomyrmex. 


Co-owner and founder of Mountain Myrmeculture and The Menagerie Discord Server

Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#42 Offline Spazmops - Posted December 7 2020 - 9:19 PM

Spazmops

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

 

 

I’d say Tetramorium are better suited. Their diet is wider, they’re even less picky about food than Pogonomyrmex, they grow faster too, and they can’t sting humans.

You've never been stung by Tetramorium?

 

I've not. Does it hurt?

 

If there’s multiple workers stinging me at once it reaches the ‘mildly annoying’ part of my pain gauge. 


  • TennesseeAnts and Devi like this

Co-owner and founder of Mountain Myrmeculture and The Menagerie Discord Server

Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#43 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 8 2020 - 7:16 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

 

 

I’d say Tetramorium are better suited. Their diet is wider, they’re even less picky about food than Pogonomyrmex, they grow faster too, and they can’t sting humans.

You've never been stung by Tetramorium?

 

I've not. Does it hurt?

 

If there’s multiple workers stinging me at once it reaches the ‘mildly annoying’ part of my pain gauge. 

 

maybe they were not full grown workers?


  • Devi likes this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My South Dakotan Shop Here

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)


#44 Offline NickAnter - Posted December 8 2020 - 7:48 AM

NickAnter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,307 posts
  • LocationOrange County, California

I mean, S. validiuscula(2mm thief ants) stung me(1 worker stung on the underside of my wrist), and it even made a tiny welt, but I didn't even feel it lol. Many Myrmicines sting, including Temnothorax, but with many of them, they either cannot pierce the skin, or are not very painful, due to very low amounts of venom being pumped into you.


  • Ants_Dakota likes this

Hi there! I went on a 6 month or so hiatus, in part due, and in part cause of the death of my colonies. 

However, I went back to the Sierras, and restarted my collection, which is now as follows:

Aphaenogaster uinta, Camponotus vicinus, Camponotus modoc, Formica cf. aserva, Formica cf. micropthalma, Formica cf. manni, Formica subpolita, Formica cf. subaenescens, Lasius americanus, Manica invidia, Pogonomyrmex salinus, Pogonomyrmex sp. 1, Solenopsis validiuscula, & Solenopsis sp. 3 (new Sierra variant). 


#45 Offline Swirlysnowflake - Posted December 8 2020 - 7:58 AM

Swirlysnowflake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • LocationBay Area, CA

 

 

 

 

I’d say Tetramorium are better suited. Their diet is wider, they’re even less picky about food than Pogonomyrmex, they grow faster too, and they can’t sting humans.

You've never been stung by Tetramorium?

 

I've not. Does it hurt?

 

If there’s multiple workers stinging me at once it reaches the ‘mildly annoying’ part of my pain gauge. 

 

maybe they were not full grown workers?

 

I've picked up my worker, tapped them out of their tube and had them fall all over my hands, and even almost squash one by accident. I've never been stung lol


 My YouTube channel :)

 

 


#46 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted December 8 2020 - 8:11 AM

KitsAntVa

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,254 posts
  • LocationRichmond, Virginia

I have to say, I think you are completely wrong, while their diet is only seeds and you only have to feed them seeds it means that even if you raise them in perfect conditions(with seeds), even with a THA insert is very difficult to even raise more than around 3-4 workers, for a semi claustral queen eating seeds that is absolutely crazy to get that amount, you may think that raising a queen is easy with just seeds but its not. THA has their own room with around 90 degree temperatures and all day heating, still the queens sometimes only get around 5-6 workers for a semi queen. To be fair the only way you will get a colony to a mature size is if you buy from tarheelants with workers. A better ant to keep is tetras and in my opinion a all time favorite- lasius.


We don’t talk about that

#47 Offline Swirlysnowflake - Posted December 8 2020 - 8:16 AM

Swirlysnowflake

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,155 posts
  • LocationBay Area, CA

I have to say, I think you are completely wrong, while their diet is only seeds and you only have to feed them seeds it means that even if you raise them in perfect conditions(with seeds), even with a THA insert is very difficult to even raise more than around 3-4 workers, for a semi claustral queen eating seeds that is absolutely crazy to get that amount, you may think that raising a queen is easy with just seeds but its not. THA has their own room with around 90 degree temperatures and all day heating, still the queens sometimes only get around 5-6 workers for a semi queen. To be fair the only way you will get a colony to a mature size is if you buy from tarheelants with workers. A better ant to keep is tetras and in my opinion a all time favorite- lasius.

Really? are Pogonomyrmex that hard to found?


 My YouTube channel :)

 

 


#48 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted December 8 2020 - 8:21 AM

KitsAntVa

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,254 posts
  • LocationRichmond, Virginia

The temperature, humidity, food, any type of conditions that aren't perfect means not many workers. I will say i've seen people keep them in bamboo test tubes and manage to raise a semi queen to around 30 workers by feeding actual protein, which is another thing I think is wrong, If you want a healthy colony of like 300 in a year you should try feeding them crickets and protein every day. protein+1year=alates in your Pogonomyrmex colony.


  • Ants_Dakota likes this
We don’t talk about that

#49 Offline TechAnt - Posted December 8 2020 - 9:33 AM

TechAnt

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,303 posts
  • LocationLos Angeles, California

When I think about it, I suppose there is no real "best species suited for captivity" now that I think about it. Every ant species has pros and cons, each ant species are meant to live in specific areas, they each have many abilities, good or bad for their keepers (intelligence, escape artists, etc). Take Linepithema humile, as many know, the Argentine Ant, its invasive, like an escape artist, and grow extremely fast (not completely good or bad depending on who is reading this), and hard to contain in large numbers. BUT, they are polygonus, easy to found, easy to boost them with wild workers/brood, and fairly easy to catch queens due to their large numbers. They both have good and bad aspects, it also depends on the keeper and what species they like and enjoy keeping, how experienced they are, and what species that live in their area that they can obtain.

 

Not sure if this is helpful or not.


  • ANTdrew and Ants_Dakota like this
My Ants:
(x1) Campontous semitstaceus ~20 workers, 1 Queen
(x1) Camponotus vicinus ~10 workers, 1 Queen (all black variety)
(x1) Tetramorium immigrans ~100 workers, 1 Queen
(x1) Myrmercocystus mexicanus -1 Queen
(x2) Mymercocystus mimcus -1 Queen
(x1) Mymercocystus testaceus ~45 workers, 1 Queen

#50 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 8 2020 - 10:07 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

When I think about it, I suppose there is no real "best species suited for captivity" now that I think about it. Every ant species has pros and cons, each ant species are meant to live in specific areas, they each have many abilities, good or bad for their keepers (intelligence, escape artists, etc). Take Linepithema humile, as many know, the Argentine Ant, its invasive, like an escape artist, and grow extremely fast (not completely good or bad depending on who is reading this), and hard to contain in large numbers. BUT, they are polygonus, easy to found, easy to boost them with wild workers/brood, and fairly easy to catch queens due to their large numbers. They both have good and bad aspects, it also depends on the keeper and what species they like and enjoy keeping, how experienced they are, and what species that live in their area that they can obtain.

 

Not sure if this is helpful or not.

the example would be: my easiest to keep ant species would be tetramorium immigrans, because i have never kept pogonomyrmex. also, they eat less than them, because of their smaller size. but like i said i have never kept pogonomyrmex, so maybe they are easier. until one keeps every species in the world, no one can decide the easiest to keep.


  • Swirlysnowflake and Devi like this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My South Dakotan Shop Here

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)


#51 Offline Spazmops - Posted December 8 2020 - 12:31 PM

Spazmops

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

 

I have to say, I think you are completely wrong, while their diet is only seeds and you only have to feed them seeds it means that even if you raise them in perfect conditions(with seeds), even with a THA insert is very difficult to even raise more than around 3-4 workers, for a semi claustral queen eating seeds that is absolutely crazy to get that amount, you may think that raising a queen is easy with just seeds but its not. THA has their own room with around 90 degree temperatures and all day heating, still the queens sometimes only get around 5-6 workers for a semi queen. To be fair the only way you will get a colony to a mature size is if you buy from tarheelants with workers. A better ant to keep is tetras and in my opinion a all time favorite- lasius.

Really? are Pogonomyrmex that hard to found?

 

No, not really. Not in my experience at least.


Co-owner and founder of Mountain Myrmeculture and The Menagerie Discord Server

Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#52 Offline Spazmops - Posted December 8 2020 - 12:35 PM

Spazmops

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

I have to say, I think you are completely wrong, while their diet is only seeds and you only have to feed them seeds it means that even if you raise them in perfect conditions(with seeds), even with a THA insert is very difficult to even raise more than around 3-4 workers, for a semi claustral queen eating seeds that is absolutely crazy to get that amount, you may think that raising a queen is easy with just seeds but its not. THA has their own room with around 90 degree temperatures and all day heating, still the queens sometimes only get around 5-6 workers for a semi queen. To be fair the only way you will get a colony to a mature size is if you buy from tarheelants with workers. A better ant to keep is tetras and in my opinion a all time favorite- lasius.

People have gotten P. occidentalis colonies to large numbers without buying from THA. THA’s ants aren’t magic (don’t get me wrong, he does a great job founding them), but I founded ~30 queens with just a heat mat, some test tubes, and dandelion seeds.


  • Swirlysnowflake likes this

Co-owner and founder of Mountain Myrmeculture and The Menagerie Discord Server

Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#53 Offline AntsDakota - Posted December 8 2020 - 12:51 PM

AntsDakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,994 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

I’d say Tetramorium are better suited. Their diet is wider, they’re even less picky about food than Pogonomyrmex, they grow faster too, and they can’t sting humans.

You've never been stung by Tetramorium?
I've not. Does it hurt?
If there’s multiple workers stinging me at once it reaches the ‘mildly annoying’ part of my pain gauge.
maybe they were not full grown workers?
Compared to other species, all the Tetra stings you’ve experienced definitely fit the definition of ‘mildly annoying’.
  • TennesseeAnts, Spazmops and Devi like this

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#54 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 11 2020 - 7:09 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

i mean, i never had any problems with them, but others might have.


  • Devi likes this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My South Dakotan Shop Here

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)


#55 Offline Devi - Posted December 11 2020 - 7:22 AM

Devi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

i mean, i never had any problems with them, but others might have.

I don't know if there is really a species best for captivity...  It's really a vague word, best.  People's personal preferences go into what they think is the best species, but also what they can get their hands on, for example some people might not be able to get tetras, (I know, bad example) so that wouldn't be the best species for them.  I think we could possibly narrow it down to top five for different categories, like;

Best Ant For Beginners:  Tetramorium, Lasius, maybe Formica.

Best Ant For Experienced: Pogonomyrmex, Camponotus, Formica.

Best Ant For Pros: Atta, Acromyrmex, I can't think of any others, let me know and maybe I'll edit this.

 

Just my thoughts, this is a bit of a controversial topic for some reason, but I think it may be because everyone is bringing something new to the table, things they've experienced, things they've liked, and things they haven't liked.  So, that being said, this is just my thoughts, but give me some feedback and let me know what you think!



#56 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted December 11 2020 - 7:38 AM

Ants_Dakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,059 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

i mean, i never had any problems with them, but others might have.

I don't know if there is really a species best for captivity...  It's really a vague word, best.  People's personal preferences go into what they think is the best species, but also what they can get their hands on, for example some people might not be able to get tetras, (I know, bad example) so that wouldn't be the best species for them.  I think we could possibly narrow it down to top five for different categories, like;

Best Ant For Beginners:  Tetramorium, Lasius, maybe Formica.

Best Ant For Experienced: Pogonomyrmex, Camponotus, Formica.

Best Ant For Pros: Atta, Acromyrmex, I can't think of any others, let me know and maybe I'll edit this.

 

Just my thoughts, this is a bit of a controversial topic for some reason, but I think it may be because everyone is bringing something new to the table, things they've experienced, things they've liked, and things they haven't liked.  So, that being said, this is just my thoughts, but give me some feedback and let me know what you think!

 

formica is experienced, and camponotus is beginner. that is what i have found.


  • MinigunL5 and Devi like this

Go to the ant, you sluggard; consider its ways and be wise! It has no commander, no overseer or ruler, yet it stores its provisions in summer and gathers its food at harvest. -Proverbs 6: 6-8

My South Dakotan Shop Here

Attention Ant-Keepers in South Dakota! Join the SoDak(Society Of Dakotan Ant Keepers)


#57 Offline buglover123 - Posted December 12 2020 - 5:25 PM

buglover123

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 53 posts
  • LocationSan Francsico

I agree with Devi's post, well said.

 

 

 

i mean, i never had any problems with them, but others might have.

I don't know if there is really a species best for captivity...  It's really a vague word, best.  People's personal preferences go into what they think is the best species, but also what they can get their hands on, for example some people might not be able to get tetras, (I know, bad example) so that wouldn't be the best species for them.  I think we could possibly narrow it down to top five for different categories, like;

Best Ant For Beginners:  Tetramorium, Lasius, maybe Formica.

Best Ant For Experienced: Pogonomyrmex, Camponotus, Formica.

Best Ant For Pros: Atta, Acromyrmex, I can't think of any others, let me know and maybe I'll edit this.

 

Just my thoughts, this is a bit of a controversial topic for some reason, but I think it may be because everyone is bringing something new to the table, things they've experienced, things they've liked, and things they haven't liked.  So, that being said, this is just my thoughts, but give me some feedback and let me know what you think!

 

formica is experienced, and camponotus is beginner. that is what i have found.

 

I dunno, camponotus needs heating during founding and also hibernation is a thing for camponotus. In my experience formica is easier.


  • Ants_Dakota and Devi like this

#58 Offline Spazmops - Posted December 12 2020 - 5:30 PM

Spazmops

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 558 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

I agree with Devi's post, well said.

 

 

 

i mean, i never had any problems with them, but others might have.

I don't know if there is really a species best for captivity...  It's really a vague word, best.  People's personal preferences go into what they think is the best species, but also what they can get their hands on, for example some people might not be able to get tetras, (I know, bad example) so that wouldn't be the best species for them.  I think we could possibly narrow it down to top five for different categories, like;

Best Ant For Beginners:  Tetramorium, Lasius, maybe Formica.

Best Ant For Experienced: Pogonomyrmex, Camponotus, Formica.

Best Ant For Pros: Atta, Acromyrmex, I can't think of any others, let me know and maybe I'll edit this.

 

Just my thoughts, this is a bit of a controversial topic for some reason, but I think it may be because everyone is bringing something new to the table, things they've experienced, things they've liked, and things they haven't liked.  So, that being said, this is just my thoughts, but give me some feedback and let me know what you think!

 

formica is experienced, and camponotus is beginner. that is what i have found.

 

I dunno, camponotus needs heating during founding and also hibernation is a thing for camponotus. In my experience formica is easier.

Formica are extremely easy to found in my experience. It's totally possible I just got lucky, but founding my Formica colony was a breeze. Then again I only have Formica fusca group, and it would be incorrect of me to say that it applies to the entire genus.


Co-owner and founder of Mountain Myrmeculture and The Menagerie Discord Server

Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#59 Offline Devi - Posted December 12 2020 - 6:07 PM

Devi

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 602 posts
  • LocationDenver, Colorado

This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about.  Lol.  Some people think formica are for beginners, others think Camponotus are for beginners.  It all depends on different people's experience.    



#60 Offline CheetoLord02 - Posted December 12 2020 - 6:53 PM

CheetoLord02

    Vendor

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 781 posts
  • LocationMesa, AZ

Camponotus are far too diverse to be classed together as an entire genus. Certain species will be far more difficult than others.


  • TennesseeAnts, NickAnter, Ants_Dakota and 1 other like this




0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users