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adding a gender option?


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#41 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted November 12 2020 - 2:25 PM

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Yes thank you this has gone to far.
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We don’t talk about that

#42 Offline CasiahJade - Posted November 12 2020 - 2:38 PM

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drtrmiller put it this way, "While it is critical to the continued growth of this community that we make every aspiring antkeeper feel welcome here, the reality is that these sorts of positive discussions and requests are likely to trigger some of our more sensitive members to post intolerant remarks, or to proceed to ask questions in bad faith, as evidenced by some of the responses thus far.  Consequently, it is probably best if requests of this type are directed to the forum admin dspdrew through private message, rather than put forth for public discussion."

 

 

This, I think, has shown particular resonance in this thread already, though perhaps Minigun has not correctly identified the sensitive group.

 

 

Well, no.  Generally the people who mock something like this are the kind that aren't sensitive about it.  I have my gender issues, but they're all internal.  I'm not hurt when someone uses the "wrong" pronoun for me.  Just like I'm not offended when someone makes fun of my weight.  I make jokes bout these things as well.  So when someone makes a comment about "attack helicopters", it tells me that they are likely not the sort to be offended by such things.  Usually it is people who see it as such a trivial thing - they don't care about your gender identity, its completely irrelevant to them and how they're going to treat you - that will make such jokes.

 

Like I said, the conversation does more to divide people than it does to bring inclusion.


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#43 Offline mmcguffi - Posted November 12 2020 - 2:45 PM

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Well, no.  Generally the people who mock something like this are the kind that aren't sensitive about it.  I have my gender issues, but they're all internal.  I'm not hurt when someone uses the "wrong" pronoun for me.  Just like I'm not offended when someone makes fun of my weight.  I make jokes bout these things as well.  So when someone makes a comment about "attack helicopters", it tells me that they are likely not the sort to be offended by such things.  Usually it is people who see it as such a trivial thing - they don't care about your gender identity, its completely irrelevant to them and how they're going to treat you - that will make such jokes.

 

Like I said, the conversation does more to divide people than it does to bring inclusion.

 

I understand that perspective. From what I see in this thread though is people who are very resistant to having a discussion about adding gender options jump to "attack helicopters" and "get politics out of my ants!". If they truly were not sensitive and did not care, they would either a.) ignore the thread of or b.) remain civil and genuinely listen with empathy to the position of the people advocating for a change


Edited by mmcguffi, November 12 2020 - 2:45 PM.

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#44 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted November 12 2020 - 2:48 PM

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Well, no.  Generally the people who mock something like this are the kind that aren't sensitive about it.  I have my gender issues, but they're all internal.  I'm not hurt when someone uses the "wrong" pronoun for me.  Just like I'm not offended when someone makes fun of my weight.  I make jokes bout these things as well.  So when someone makes a comment about "attack helicopters", it tells me that they are likely not the sort to be offended by such things.  Usually it is people who see it as such a trivial thing - they don't care about your gender identity, its completely irrelevant to them and how they're going to treat you - that will make such jokes.

 

Like I said, the conversation does more to divide people than it does to bring inclusion.

 

I understand that perspective. From what I see in this thread though is people who are very resistant to having a discussion about adding gender options jump to "attack helicopters" and "get politics out of my ants!". If they truly were not sensitive and did not care, they would either a.) ignore the thread of or b.) remain civil and genuinely listen with empathy to the position of the people advocating for a change

 

I'm sorry if I seem insensitive. I'm not trying to offend anyone or even be rude.


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Formica subsericea queen with 2 workersLasius aphidicola queens-Camponotus pennsylvanicus queen| Camponotus novaeboracensis queen with ~35 workers10 Solenopsis molesta queens (together) with 5-10 workers| Lasius cf. neoniger queens| Apheonogaster fulva queenBrachymyrmex depilis queen| Myrmica cf. punctiventris queenStenamma brevicorne queen


#45 Offline Ants_Dakota - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:05 PM

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i am also trying to be as polite as possible. the way i see it, this is just an ant forum, for nothing else but to learn about ants, post about ants, and get to know other ant keepers. i always try to keep gender, politics, and any other controversial topic other than ants off of the forum. it makes ant talks so much more meaningful when you are not holding a grudge against someone for going against your ideas. we all like ants, and lets keep it this way. (this is the way)(sorry, had to put it in there!) if someone has a different gender that is not on the gender list, politely ask dspdrew for a change. or add it to your about me section, if it is important to you. i get there are different ideas out there, but this is at least mine. and, if you don't like it, at least lets still be antkeeping friends.

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#46 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:26 PM

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Sometimes when you're talking to someone you need to refer to them with pronouns and u don't know their gender so you don't know which to use. The gender in the profile and helps with that. That's why I would prefer if there was an added option for 'Other' so that everyone can be included and you can know what pronouns to refer to people. Also, some people would say to just ask them but personally I would be embarrassed to ask that. For example, when I was in 4th grade there was this girl that I though might be a boy cause she kinda acted like one and dressed like one, and when I asked she kinda laughed and I was really embarrassed. 


ANTS I KEEP:

Formica subsericea queen with 2 workersLasius aphidicola queens-Camponotus pennsylvanicus queen| Camponotus novaeboracensis queen with ~35 workers10 Solenopsis molesta queens (together) with 5-10 workers| Lasius cf. neoniger queens| Apheonogaster fulva queenBrachymyrmex depilis queen| Myrmica cf. punctiventris queenStenamma brevicorne queen


#47 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:29 PM

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Me going back and reading this entire thing.Attached File  58481C89-11B3-4401-86E3-E980505DE2B8.jpeg   323.52KB   1 downloads
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We don’t talk about that

#48 Offline Swirlysnowflake - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:35 PM

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Sometimes when you're talking to someone you need to refer to them with pronouns and u don't know their gender so you don't know which to use. The gender in the profile and helps with that. That's why I would prefer if there was an added option for 'Other' so that everyone can be included and you can know what pronouns to refer to people. Also, some people would say to just ask them but personally I would be embarrassed to ask that. For example, when I was in 4th grade there was this girl that I though might be a boy cause she kinda acted like one and dressed like one, and when I asked she kinda laughed and I was really embarrassed. 

true 


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#49 Offline Barristan - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:42 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?


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#50 Offline AleeGuy - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:46 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

Its like you, me, I, she, he, him, her, etc.
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#51 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:47 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

He/She- They

Her/His- Their


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ANTS I KEEP:

Formica subsericea queen with 2 workersLasius aphidicola queens-Camponotus pennsylvanicus queen| Camponotus novaeboracensis queen with ~35 workers10 Solenopsis molesta queens (together) with 5-10 workers| Lasius cf. neoniger queens| Apheonogaster fulva queenBrachymyrmex depilis queen| Myrmica cf. punctiventris queenStenamma brevicorne queen


#52 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:48 PM

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Them, they.
We don’t talk about that

#53 Offline Subverted - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:48 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

He/She- They

Her/His- Their

 

Also "They're".


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#54 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted November 12 2020 - 3:49 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

He/She- They

Her/His- Their

 

Also "They're".

 

He is/She is- They're


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ANTS I KEEP:

Formica subsericea queen with 2 workersLasius aphidicola queens-Camponotus pennsylvanicus queen| Camponotus novaeboracensis queen with ~35 workers10 Solenopsis molesta queens (together) with 5-10 workers| Lasius cf. neoniger queens| Apheonogaster fulva queenBrachymyrmex depilis queen| Myrmica cf. punctiventris queenStenamma brevicorne queen


#55 Offline CasiahJade - Posted November 12 2020 - 5:42 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

Generally I don't refer to people by pronouns on a forum.  There are far too many of us to use any single person pronouns with the expectation of clarity.  I will refer to MinigunL5 as either Mini, MG, L5, or something else to indicate that I'm talking about them.  (It was necessary in that case to use a pronoun because the sentence is self referential.)

 

One thing that is important to remember is that in formal English, "He" is actually gender neutral.  He/Him/His can refer to an unknown or undeclared individual.  We've started using (s)he or his/her, but it is generally unnecessary.

 

I don't know of a language that has a collective pronoun for a group that is exclusively male. As in a group of seven hundred men having a different collective pronoun from a group of six hundred and ninety nine men and one woman.  But, there is, for groups of exclusively women.


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#56 Offline Spazmops - Posted November 12 2020 - 6:04 PM

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If I'm not sure I either use their username or they/them. It's simple and I avoid inadvertently offending anyone. 


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#57 Offline Barristan - Posted November 12 2020 - 7:07 PM

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I am no native speaker, what pronouns do you use if you refer to a user in general?

Generally I don't refer to people by pronouns on a forum.  There are far too many of us to use any single person pronouns with the expectation of clarity.  I will refer to MinigunL5 as either Mini, MG, L5, or something else to indicate that I'm talking about them.  (It was necessary in that case to use a pronoun because the sentence is self referential.)

 

One thing that is important to remember is that in formal English, "He" is actually gender neutral.  He/Him/His can refer to an unknown or undeclared individual.  We've started using (s)he or his/her, but it is generally unnecessary.

 

I don't know of a language that has a collective pronoun for a group that is exclusively male. As in a group of seven hundred men having a different collective pronoun from a group of six hundred and ninety nine men and one woman.  But, there is, for groups of exclusively women.

 

 

In German "group" (die Gruppe) is female so we use female pronounce to speak about a group in general regardless how many male or female persons are in it. Some goes for user it is male (der Benutzer) however there are also female versions of a lot of words like die Benutzerin (meaning a female user). So if you wanted to be really tolernat towards all gender you would write for example:

Liebe Benutzer/in (Dear user)

But since now we also have people identify as other genders there is also the option:Benutzer*in The star should highlight that there are also other genders beside male and female. But this isn't official (yet) and only mainly used in left wing newspapers, blogs etc.



#58 Offline KitsAntVa - Posted November 12 2020 - 7:10 PM

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In spanish they use ellos, for male ellas, for female. and some other.

Ok literally this has gone a little to far we are just stating facts now.


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We don’t talk about that

#59 Offline Spazmops - Posted November 12 2020 - 7:47 PM

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In spanish they use ellos, for male ellas, for female. and some other.

Ok literally this has gone a little to far we are just stating facts now.

Ustedes and usted are nongendered formal, I think that's the other one you meant


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Ants I have:

1 Formica fusca group- 0 workers

1 Tetramorium immigrans colony-20 workers

1 Dorymyrmex insanus- 1 queen, used to have workers

 

1 large P. occidentalis colony- around 50 workers, plenty of brood

 

 


#60 Offline Vendayn - Posted November 12 2020 - 9:17 PM

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Wait, I just realized. I thought of the perfect solution to transporting ants across state lines.

 

if someone can be any gender or person they want. Then that means I can find Atta in texas, call them dogs (or cats) and its okay. Its legal to bring dogs and cats across state borders. Cause its 2020 (almost 2021), dogs are cats and cats are dogs :D If you get a super liberal judge, I'm sure they'd believe it. Bonus points if you are on disability like I am and call them a service animal :D Then you can use all kinds of legal defenses to keep the dogs/cats known as Atta from texas, a special breed of cat/dog ;) Not many would want to discriminate against a disabled persons service animal to begin with, and in 2020/2021 you can call anything you want and its that thing.

 

(do note: I'm just joking around :P But I imagine in the future this will be a thing. Though I can imagine someone on disability using some ant as a service animal and it probably actually work if they got lucky with the right judge)


Edited by Vendayn, November 12 2020 - 9:42 PM.

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