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CatsnAnts' Temnothorax curvispinosus Queen-Less Colony Journal (Updated 7-29-2020) - We Have an Immortal Colony!

gamergate fertilized worker temnothorax curvispinosus queenless catsnants

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#21 Offline CatsnAnts - Posted July 1 2020 - 6:01 PM

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I was researching a little more and found a small section in the AntWiki for T. ambiguus (closely related to T. curvispinosus) that said this:

“Worker reproduction does occur with some male production possible from worker derived eggs. Reproductive workers contain 2 ovarioles.”

This seems to be what I’m experiencing, and it was even stated that:

“New queens are produced in some queenless nests.”

So does that mean that the new “alates” eventually produced will mate with the males in the nest, or just remain unmated? So many more questions now :lol:.

Edited by CatsnAnts, July 1 2020 - 6:15 PM.

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#22 Offline AntsDakota - Posted July 1 2020 - 6:08 PM

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Well, I guess you’ll find out! Also didn’t find one thing. The area was too wet, as it rained last night.
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"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#23 Offline CatsnAnts - Posted July 8 2020 - 12:28 AM

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Colony Update
7/8/2020

Temnothorax curvispinosus (0 queens)
Eggggggggs! I wasn’t for sure if they laid eggs in the last update, but now two eggs are clearly visible. The population of workers has had a massive increase as well:



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#24 Offline Antkid12 - Posted July 8 2020 - 4:11 AM

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Nice!


Ants I have: Tapinoma sessile(2 queen colony). RED MORPH Camponotus neacticus(now has pupae!), Tetramorium immigrans (x3), Aphaenogaster sp, Temnothorax sp, Brachymyrmex sp.   possibly infertile   :(,  Ponera pennsylvanica, and Pheidole morrisi!  :yahoo: 

 

Other insects: Polistes sp. Queen

                    

Ants I need: Pheidole sp., Trachymyrmex sp., Crematogaster cerasi , Dorymyrmex sp. Most wanted: Pheidole morrisii

 

                    

                   

 

 


#25 Offline ForestDragon - Posted July 8 2020 - 6:10 AM

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this is interesting


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#26 Offline CatsnAnts - Posted July 29 2020 - 3:15 PM

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Update 7-29-2020

 

Temnothorax curvispinosus (queen-less):

 

This colony has shocked me once again. I decided to check up on them for the first time in a while, and I saw two large egg piles as well as more worker pupae! This is finally the confirmation that I needed in order to state that this colony does indeed have fertilized workers. With that being said, the population has been steadily growing, not declining, so I may have an "immortal colony" that doesn't have to worry about the death of reproductives. All but a few of the males are now dead in the outworld after either attempting to fly or mating with workers. I will be keeping this colony for as long as they live, and I want to see just how large a colony like this could grow without the queen, and eventually could it be exponential with the constant rise in workers? Maybe, however, without males in the nest (which there will be none soon), no workers can be fertilized. The colony may go through "cycles" in which fertilized workers are present and not present. I hypothesize that when the fertilized workers are present (like right now), the male population will diminish. However, when most of the fertilized workers die, there will likely be new eggs from non-fertilized workers that will develop into males and the cycle will start over similar to when this colony came into my possession. Had to rebuild my photo-shooting setup after my cat's wave of destruction, but it's all good now:

IMG 7040
IMG 7042
IMG 7048
IMG 7059

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#27 Offline AntsDakota - Posted July 29 2020 - 3:22 PM

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Didn't you read that ambiguus gamergates will produce new queens? That would be interesting. 


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"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#28 Offline ponerinecat - Posted July 29 2020 - 3:39 PM

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Yeah, it seems this colony has made FERTILIZED gamergates? Not like when some workers in species just lay male eggs. Honestly, you may have discovered some information on how gamergates became a common practice in species like Bull Ants, Trap Jaw Ants, etc.

 

I know I said this before, but it appears you may have discovered the process of how ants made fertilized gamergates. Which would be super interesting. I dunno why more people don’t look at the journal.

 

Not at all how the system works, gamergates and dominance systems have already been studied in depth. Not that there isn't anything new to record, just that I don't see this as being anything super revolutionary. If you want to read into it, there plenty of published sources dedicated to this or that just touch up on the subject. It has to do with a large number of factors, and you have to understand how workers evolved in the first place. A lot of it has to do with kin selection. Remember, eusociality evolved from solitary reproduction strategies. This would be more of reverse evolution or simply primitively developed eusocial systems. The enthusiasm is certainly good for the hobby though, or in this case the field of study, keep it up! Just remember to do background checks first. I think everyone had that kind of blind excitement at first.


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#29 Offline ponerinecat - Posted July 29 2020 - 3:43 PM

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great journal btw.


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#30 Offline Froggy - Posted July 29 2020 - 3:58 PM

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Update 7-29-2020

 

Temnothorax curvispinosus (queen-less):

 

This colony has shocked me once again. I decided to check up on them for the first time in a while, and I saw two large egg piles as well as more worker pupae! This is finally the confirmation that I needed in order to state that this colony does indeed have fertilized workers. With that being said, the population has been steadily growing, not declining, so I may have an "immortal colony" that doesn't have to worry about the death of reproductives. All but a few of the males are now dead in the outworld after either attempting to fly or mating with workers. I will be keeping this colony for as long as they live, and I want to see just how large a colony like this could grow without the queen, and eventually could it be exponential with the constant rise in workers? Maybe, however, without males in the nest (which there will be none soon), no workers can be fertilized. The colony may go through "cycles" in which fertilized workers are present and not present. I hypothesize that when the fertilized workers are present (like right now), the male population will diminish. However, when most of the fertilized workers die, there will likely be new eggs from non-fertilized workers that will develop into males and the cycle will start over similar to when this colony came into my possession. Had to rebuild my photo-shooting setup after my cat's wave of destruction, but it's all good now:

Great photos! What camera/lens/flash do you use?


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#31 Offline Antkid12 - Posted July 29 2020 - 4:05 PM

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Awesome pics!!


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Ants I have: Tapinoma sessile(2 queen colony). RED MORPH Camponotus neacticus(now has pupae!), Tetramorium immigrans (x3), Aphaenogaster sp, Temnothorax sp, Brachymyrmex sp.   possibly infertile   :(,  Ponera pennsylvanica, and Pheidole morrisi!  :yahoo: 

 

Other insects: Polistes sp. Queen

                    

Ants I need: Pheidole sp., Trachymyrmex sp., Crematogaster cerasi , Dorymyrmex sp. Most wanted: Pheidole morrisii

 

                    

                   

 

 


#32 Offline CatsnAnts - Posted July 29 2020 - 4:08 PM

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Update 7-29-2020

 

Temnothorax curvispinosus (queen-less):

 

This colony has shocked me once again. I decided to check up on them for the first time in a while, and I saw two large egg piles as well as more worker pupae! This is finally the confirmation that I needed in order to state that this colony does indeed have fertilized workers. With that being said, the population has been steadily growing, not declining, so I may have an "immortal colony" that doesn't have to worry about the death of reproductives. All but a few of the males are now dead in the outworld after either attempting to fly or mating with workers. I will be keeping this colony for as long as they live, and I want to see just how large a colony like this could grow without the queen, and eventually could it be exponential with the constant rise in workers? Maybe, however, without males in the nest (which there will be none soon), no workers can be fertilized. The colony may go through "cycles" in which fertilized workers are present and not present. I hypothesize that when the fertilized workers are present (like right now), the male population will diminish. However, when most of the fertilized workers die, there will likely be new eggs from non-fertilized workers that will develop into males and the cycle will start over similar to when this colony came into my possession. Had to rebuild my photo-shooting setup after my cat's wave of destruction, but it's all good now:

Great photos! What camera/lens/flash do you use?

 

Thank you! I use a Canon EOS Rebel xsi (I likely named it incorrectly, I didn't know a single thing about cameras until about a week ago lol). As for the lens, I simply use the standard EF-S 18-55mm lens that came with the camera combined with a reversal ring. It provides great macro photography, although it's a little tricky since I don't have electrical connection to it anymore. As for the flash, I use the built-in flash combined with a homemade flash diffuser to direct the light around the lense so I can get properly lit shots (I usually have it set to +2/3 exposure, but I also use a homemade light-box). I might make a tutorial on how to use a reversal ring/create a setup for macro photography of ants since a few people have asked about this kind of thing.


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#33 Offline Kaelwizard - Posted July 29 2020 - 4:19 PM

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I have a Canon EOS Rebel T6 so I will have to figure out how to get pictures as good as that.
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#34 Offline M_Ants - Posted July 30 2020 - 12:24 PM

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Update 7-29-2020

 

Temnothorax curvispinosus (queen-less):

 

This colony has shocked me once again. I decided to check up on them for the first time in a while, and I saw two large egg piles as well as more worker pupae! This is finally the confirmation that I needed in order to state that this colony does indeed have fertilized workers. With that being said, the population has been steadily growing, not declining, so I may have an "immortal colony" that doesn't have to worry about the death of reproductives. All but a few of the males are now dead in the outworld after either attempting to fly or mating with workers. I will be keeping this colony for as long as they live, and I want to see just how large a colony like this could grow without the queen, and eventually could it be exponential with the constant rise in workers? Maybe, however, without males in the nest (which there will be none soon), no workers can be fertilized. The colony may go through "cycles" in which fertilized workers are present and not present. I hypothesize that when the fertilized workers are present (like right now), the male population will diminish. However, when most of the fertilized workers die, there will likely be new eggs from non-fertilized workers that will develop into males and the cycle will start over similar to when this colony came into my possession. Had to rebuild my photo-shooting setup after my cat's wave of destruction, but it's all good now:

Great photos! What camera/lens/flash do you use?

 

Thank you! I use a Canon EOS Rebel xsi (I likely named it incorrectly, I didn't know a single thing about cameras until about a week ago lol). As for the lens, I simply use the standard EF-S 18-55mm lens that came with the camera combined with a reversal ring. It provides great macro photography, although it's a little tricky since I don't have electrical connection to it anymore. As for the flash, I use the built-in flash combined with a homemade flash diffuser to direct the light around the lense so I can get properly lit shots (I usually have it set to +2/3 exposure, but I also use a homemade light-box). I might make a tutorial on how to use a reversal ring/create a setup for macro photography of ants since a few people have asked about this kind of thing.

 

I would love a tutorial.


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Veromessor pergandei

Veromessor andrei

Crematogaster sp. 

Pogonomyrmex cf cali and rugosus

Various Pheidole

C. yogi 

https://www.youtube....FG7utFVBA/about


#35 Offline M_Ants - Posted July 30 2020 - 1:04 PM

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Also what's the difference between a light diffuser and a light-box? Does a light box work better than a ring flash? I'm trying to replicate your setup. :)


Veromessor pergandei

Veromessor andrei

Crematogaster sp. 

Pogonomyrmex cf cali and rugosus

Various Pheidole

C. yogi 

https://www.youtube....FG7utFVBA/about


#36 Offline ponerinecat - Posted July 30 2020 - 1:05 PM

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A light box is just a box of opaque material that's lighted on all sides from outside. A flash diffuser diffuses light from the flash.


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#37 Offline CatsnAnts - Posted July 30 2020 - 1:30 PM

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A light box is just a box of opaque material that's lighted on all sides from outside. A flash diffuser diffuses light from the flash.


Exactly. I’ll post a tutorial in the off-topic section tomorrow.
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#38 Offline M_Ants - Posted July 30 2020 - 1:50 PM

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Just ordered the attachment to flip my lens around. Just need to make flash diffuser. 


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Veromessor pergandei

Veromessor andrei

Crematogaster sp. 

Pogonomyrmex cf cali and rugosus

Various Pheidole

C. yogi 

https://www.youtube....FG7utFVBA/about


#39 Offline UtahAnts - Posted September 8 2021 - 5:10 PM

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Just wanted to bump this thread, is the Temnothorax colony still allive? I am seeing this gamergate behavior in one of my colonies, this specific colony has around 7 gamergates, all of which have larger bodies and especially gasters than the even the largest standard worker. The queen disappeared about a month ago, either she likely died or she is hiding extremely well in the corners of their wood nest. Around 50-100 eggs/small larvae have been spotted in their nest, and I can only assume it was these larger workers; they are the same size as the queen but without wing scars. I don't know if the gamergates are fertilized, if not would they just mate with the eclosed drones?

 

 

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