36 replies to this topic

[drtrmiller]

Have you considered contacting the White House for help?

If the President can sign an executive order that allows coal companies to dump waste in public rivers in the name of reforming "burdensome regulations," surely he'd be sympathetic to destroying entire ecosystems by keeping the government out of the business of regulating your antkeeping, don't you think?

Edited by drtrmiller, February 9 2017 - 1:59 PM.

[Martialis]

Have you considered contacting the White House for help?

If the President can sign an executive order that allows coal companies to dump waste in public rivers in the name of reforming "burdensome regulations," surely he'd be sympathetic to destroying entire ecosystems by keeping the government out of the business of regulating your antkeeping, don't you think?

 

 

Obama signed many things through executive orders that were considered objectionable. Did you complain then? No. Why now? The election was held fairly. 

      In addition, many countries in Europe have big governments and lax environmental laws; rendering that theory useless.

Edited by Martialis, February 9 2017 - 2:52 PM.

[Alabama Anter]

Please no...

[CallMeCraven]

Have you considered contacting the White House for help?

If the President can sign an executive order that allows coal companies to dump waste in public rivers in the name of reforming "burdensome regulations," surely he'd be sympathetic to destroying entire ecosystems by keeping the government out of the business of regulating your antkeeping, don't you think?

LOL. We are dealing with his transition team right now so maybe they won't notice if I slip some extra paperwork into our files .

[CallMeCraven]

*Update*

I received an email from APHIS notifying me that there has been a status change in my application. As I was off yesterday, and since I leave my access card at work, I will not be able to check until Monday. I am just posting this so the people who are watching this thread can build some anticipation for my imminent denial .

[Shareallicu]

thanks, very helpful!!  I didn't know I could get a permit for a broad range of ant (Formica).  I was told I had to be specific.  How much did it cost?

[Shareallicu]

*Update*

I received an email from APHIS notifying me that there has been a status change in my application. As I was off yesterday, and since I leave my access card at work, I will not be able to check until Monday. I am just posting this so the people who are watching this thread can build some anticipation for my imminent denial .

Why do you think you will be denied?

[CallMeCraven]

 

*Update*

I received an email from APHIS notifying me that there has been a status change in my application. As I was off yesterday, and since I leave my access card at work, I will not be able to check until Monday. I am just posting this so the people who are watching this thread can build some anticipation for my imminent denial .

Why do you think you will be denied?

 

Permits are generally not issued for personal use. They are meant for labs, museums, universities, and other places that have the means to contain pests and handle any possible breaches of the containment.

[CallMeCraven]

*Final Update*

I was not denied, however over the course of time, my opinions changed and I was not even interested in obtaining a permit, but I was just interested in the possibility of a nobody hobbiest like myself getting a permit to transport ants. This whole process turned into an educational experience for myself that I hoped to share with everyone here. The message I received was from an employee of APHIS who had additional concerns about the permit and offered some further insight into what it means to be a permit holder. I will paste parts of the message into the body below:

 

"It is quite rare that our group would permit an entire family of insects. Many Formicidae can be quite invasive, environmentally or economically destructive or cause serious property damage. Do you have any particular species in mind as that might aid you in receiving approval? As a general rule, possessing insects from within your own state does not require permits, Bringing insects across state lines usually will require a permit."

 

Someone get Dr. Miller some internet points, because his earlier post nailed that being vague generally will not get you a permit. The employee echoed the best advice (in my opinion) that this forum gives in sentence two of the quote.

 

"Please be advised that if permits were to be granted, you would be potentially subject to an initial inspection of the containment facility followed by unannounced inspections or periodic compliance inspections for regulated organisms. As a result, I would encourage you to consider native species for your studies."

 

This is the part of the message that made me decide I had gone far enough (although inspections, or the possibility there of, where expected). I believe my goal of learning about the APHIS permiting process, as well as sharing with everyone here who is interested, has been achieved. I messaged the employee who wrote me this message on our internal skype system and thanked him for taking the time to review the application and that I will not be perusing the permit any farther.

 

My advice from this process for anyone who is interested in attempting it themselves, be prepared to invest a lot of time and money into this hobby. I bypassed a big step of getting an eAuthentication by using my USDA credentials. APHIS will expect you to have facilities up to par with museums, labs, and other institutions that can contain pests, as they should. If you have these facilities, be ready for inspection from the USDA. I realized that this was an intensive process, as we do it for work to ship dirt to our national soils lab in Nebraska, and I hope this post helps anyone interested in this realize just this. 

 

Catch local, keep local.

Edited by CallMeCraven, April 3 2017 - 7:43 AM.

[SoySauce]

Thank you for documenting this entire process. I'm sure everyone who has read it benefited.

[sgheaton]

Agreed, thank you for taking all of the time to go through this process. It was very interesting to say the least. 

Good point about the "lab inspection". Didn't even think about that but of course you'd have "ISO Audit-like meetings" all the dang time.  

 

Again, thanks for pursuing this for others. 

[Shareallicu]

*Final Update*

I was not denied, however over the course of time, my opinions changed and I was not even interested in obtaining a permit, but I was just interested in the possibility of a nobody hobbiest like myself getting a permit to transport ants. This whole process turned into an educational experience for myself that I hoped to share with everyone here. The message I received was from an employee of APHIS who had additional concerns about the permit and offered some further insight into what it means to be a permit holder. I will paste parts of the message into the body below:

 

"It is quite rare that our group would permit an entire family of insects. Many Formicidae can be quite invasive, environmentally or economically destructive or cause serious property damage. Do you have any particular species in mind as that might aid you in receiving approval? As a general rule, possessing insects from within your own state does not require permits, Bringing insects across state lines usually will require a permit."

 

Someone get Dr. Miller some internet points, because his earlier post nailed that being vague generally will not get you a permit. The employee echoed the best advice (in my opinion) that this forum gives in sentence two of the quote.

 

"Please be advised that if permits were to be granted, you would be potentially subject to an initial inspection of the containment facility followed by unannounced inspections or periodic compliance inspections for regulated organisms. As a result, I would encourage you to consider native species for your studies."

 

This is the part of the message that made me decide I had gone far enough (although inspections, or the possibility there of, where expected). I believe my goal of learning about the APHIS permiting process, as well as sharing with everyone here who is interested, has been achieved. I messaged the employee who wrote me this message on our internal skype system and thanked him for taking the time to review the application and that I will not be perusing the permit any farther.

 

My advice from this process for anyone who is interested in attempting it themselves, be prepared to invest a lot of time and money into this hobby. I bypassed a big step of getting an eAuthentication by using my USDA credentials. APHIS will expect you to have facilities up to par with museums, labs, and other institutions that can contain pests, as they should. If you have these facilities, be ready for inspection from the USDA. I realized that this was an intensive process, as we do it for work to ship dirt to our national soils lab in Nebraska, and I hope this post helps anyone interested in this realize just this. 

 

I knew you had to be very specific about the type of ant you wanted the permit for.  They told me that too!

[thosaka]

I find it amusing they treat insects like nuclear weapons.

[CallMeCraven]

I find it amusing they treat insects like nuclear weapons.

The have the power to devastate crops and ecosystems. There is a good reason they are regulated, although i do agree that the ways they go about it seems un-enforceable at certain scales.

[yen_saw]

I volunteer in the Houston Museum of Natural Science insect zoo department and familiar with the process. It's not impossible to apply for a permit. The key is to state your reason clearly (even if it is for hobby), details of the (non-native) species, and your quarantine room condition, which is the location where you keep your insect. Most of us will be struggling to provide a bug room with double barrier at any entry/exit point, which will be inspected prior to permit approval. If you meet the requirement, a permit tape will be provided to you, which you can send to the shipper and label it on the package containing the specimen you requested.

[Nathant2131]

I find it amusing they treat insects like nuclear weapons.

They do have the power of a nuclear weapon when you think about it. Just look at the plant destructing capabilities of Aphids.

[Serafine]

Certain species can have similar effects to native wildlife - just look at Christmas Island where Anoplolepis gracilipes (the yellow crazy ant) is nuking an entire ecosystem, including the magnificent red crabs the island is famous for.