13 replies to this topic

[benjiwuf]

So I'm trying to firgure out what i should use to make a nest for my Messor barbarus. Ytong should be enough to start, but I'm trying to find a more long term solution. I'm wondering what others think about a chew proof material. I figure Pogonomyrmex must be pretty similar so I'm hoping i can get some better ideas.

Edited by benjiwuf, July 22 2016 - 11:42 AM.

[Ants4fun]

What isn't long term about Y-tong? You will want to cycle your bests every couple years anyways... Honestly dirt would be the best route to go for a permanent substrate. It automatically recirculates, Messor do amazing in them and once there's thousands of workers there isn't much to see anyways. You could go for an ant farm style or a terrarium style.

Other options for nesting material that are hardy would be hydostone, grout, and some are experimenting with clay. How long do you want it to last? Y-tong lasts a long time...

[benjiwuf]

I've read Messor are notorious for chewing through ytong relatively quick. I was hoping for something that will last at least 6 months or so when they get to be relatively large. The problem with the dirt style is i can't be sure everyone is out when i cycle it out, and hydration seems to be a pain.
For now I'm definitely starting with ytong though.

[dspdrew]

What isn't long term about Y-tong? You will want to cycle your bests every couple years anyways... Honestly dirt would be the best route to go for a permanent substrate. It automatically recirculates, Messor do amazing in them and once there's thousands of workers there isn't much to see anyways. You could go for an ant farm style or a terrarium style.

Other options for nesting material that are hardy would be hydostone, grout, and some are experimenting with clay. How long do you want it to last? Y-tong lasts a long time...

 

Dirt actually isn't always long term. I've made a lot of dirt nests now, and some of the ants I have in them will just continue digging the dirt out until there's nothing left.

 

If you have Pogonomyrmex, Messor or Veromessor, you'll see how fast they can get through Ytong once the colony is large enough.

[benjiwuf]

What about gypsum or even granite drilled out like ytong. It wouldn't be easy to cut into granite, but it's pretty abundant here.

[MrmrGatlin]

Are there water permeable types of granite? 

[Air]

Yeah, you need to think about if they can hold water. I had a Solenopsis invicta colony a few years back, and they are known to DESTROY Ytong. I know as a fact if you have a destructive species, your best bet is buying a THA Type II Formicarium.

[benjiwuf]

yea, buying from THA is not really an option for me as the shipping would make it not worthwhile. also the fact that ytong is exceptionally cheap i could probably make something similar to his designs myself at a reduced cost (i'm no expert on THA products, and have no idea what materials he uses nor his methods). i'm leaning more and more towards an aquarium setup with the nest(s) inside that as i research more on Messor species. i had looked for a few minutes (literally 5 or so) when i made that question regarding granite, since then i found research stating water absorption properties and it isn't good enough at best (i believe it was 14% absorption at best and normally less than 10%). i hate to use ytong if i can help it, but it seems to be the only thing i can use at the moment. i'm curious to find out drew's solution with his Veromessor and Pogonomyrmex species, and i have read probably every journal of his in the past. so i guess it's time to reread them again.

[XZero38]

what about a cinder block? I'm not sure how water absorbent those are though.

[Crystals]

Here is a list of some materials commonly used - http://www.formicult...ium/#entry11018

In the end I am not sure how anything will hold up to a large Pogonomyrmex colony.  You can try various things and if they start chewing just keep upgrading them to a slightly larger nest.  If the materials are cheap it isn't too bad.

Let us know how it turns out.

 

You might try sanded grout.  Once poured everything is usually smooth with no ridges for them to get a good grip on. Not even my largest Camponotus colony has ever tried to put a dent in grout (even though they chewed the end of my vinyl tubing until they could escape....)

[benjiwuf]

hrm, i've reread many posts of drew's formicaria designs to combat the chewing. however i'm thinking a combination of materials might work (ie a ytong nest encased in grout or cement. it would increase weight, but would also water proof the bottom so i could leave it on a wood table top for long periods). i'll have to play around and test some things out with this colony. i definitely will be rotating nests out periodically, but i have to ant proof things as much as possible. i'm typically not a fan of stone materials, but i may have to revise my opinion. i'm hoping one of the European members can chime in with their experiences keeping Messor species and how they keep everything contained.

[Crystals]

All else fails, put the nest in an open topped glass/rubbermaid box with fluon on the sides so even if they do chew their way out unnoticed they can't get away.

 

I recall seeing one nest where the person had siliconed glass completely around the nest so nothing could escape.

[dspdrew]

Bricks are basically ceramics. Ceramics are the absolute best material in my opinion. You just have to figure out how to work with it. That is the hard part.

[benjiwuf]

I've seen the same many times, i guess I'm just being difficult because i like the nest and outworld seperated lol. In the meantime i have some time (about to get my 3rd worker anyday so i have a few months yet). In the meantime i was thinking...ytong surrounded with steel mesh encased in concrete. Should stop their plans of escaping for a while lol. Glass front of course also sealed in place. I have time to experiment yet thank you all for the help and advice as always!

Edited by benjiwuf, July 22 2016 - 10:00 PM.