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Caught a queen(?) way out of season, now it appears I have eggs. Beginners luck, or am I sorely mistaken here?

Started By greenman , Apr 8 2016 11:20 AM

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#1 Offline greenman - Posted April 8 2016 - 11:20 AM

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I've got a big pack of test tubes all ready for queen collecting this summer, but about a week ago I noticed a lone Pogonomyrmex occidentalis  wandering suspiciously far from any nests that I know of. I'm in Utah by the way.

 

http://imgur.com/a/ntr4U

 

I'm pretty positive I have eggs now, near the cotton and below the condensation, but are they most likely infertile being that we're so far out of season?

 

Thanks


#2 Offline dermy - Posted April 8 2016 - 11:31 AM

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I'd say your pretty lucky, I think they fly this early [I'm from Canada, so we'd need someone in Utah or at least in the generalized area to confirm if it's early or normal] They shouldn't be infertile, they should [if all goes well, ants are all about luck, for the most part.

 

Good luck with the queen and future Colony :D


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#3 Offline greenman - Posted April 8 2016 - 11:49 AM

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Cool, thanks!  We had had a pretty warm week, and I had fired up the sprinkler system just the day before. Maybe I triggered something. I feel pretty lucky, that's why I have 25 more test tubes to hopefully increase my chances of success this summer. Pretty fun stuff.


#4 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 8 2016 - 1:10 PM

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If it's P. occidentalis, then this would be about three months early, so it's hard to say one way or another. Infertile "queens" do lay eggs; I have it happen all the time. Just keep watching them, and if they start to get a slight curve to them, and one end a little more white and opaque than the other, they are probably turning into larvae, and your queen is fertile. If they're kept pretty warm, I think you should be able to notice changes after about a week. Also keep in mind she might eat the eggs and lay new ones, making it look as though the eggs are taking forever to develop.


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#5 Offline drtrmiller - Posted April 8 2016 - 3:07 PM

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Overwintered queens may fly (or forage, if already flown) whenever the conditions are suitable, as they don't keep calendars.


Edited by drtrmiller, April 10 2016 - 3:23 PM.



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#6 Offline Ants4fun - Posted April 9 2016 - 9:51 AM

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Looks more like Apheanogaster to me...

#7 Offline dspdrew - Posted April 9 2016 - 10:47 AM

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Looks more like Apheanogaster to me...

 

Wow I didn't even notice the pictures when I first saw this post. I think you're right.


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#8 Offline Mdrogun - Posted April 9 2016 - 3:15 PM

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I'm almost positive it is Aphaenogaster.


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Pheidole pilifera

Forelius sp. (Monogynous, bicolored) "Midwestern Forelius"
Crematogaster cerasi

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Aphaenogaster rudis

Camponotus chromaiodes

Formica sp. (microgena species)

Nylanderia cf. arenivega

#9 Offline greenman - Posted April 9 2016 - 4:18 PM

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Well that's embarrassing... Thanks for the potential ID though. 


#10 Offline Miles - Posted April 9 2016 - 6:05 PM

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I don't think this is Aphaenogaster, but the little known species Manica hunteri, a species I keep here in Northern Idaho. Here's a picture of an alate from BugGuide:

 AZGLNZ8L5ZNHBH7HAH6HAHXHTH8HZRNH9Z9HBZ2H
Link

 

This species flies in mid autumn and overwinters before producing brood. This queen may have been searching for a more suitable home or was flooded out by your sprinklers. Either way, they're a very difficult species to keep and of the dozen queens I've caught, only one has been successful. I highly recommend feeding the queen some honey-water and then storing her away somewhere fairly warm, without vibrations or interruption.


Edited by Miles, April 9 2016 - 6:11 PM.

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#11 Offline greenman - Posted April 10 2016 - 2:20 PM

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Good grief. Just when you think you've got a little of this hobby figured out. 

 

An overwintering queen makes sense. 


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#12 Offline TheAnswerIsTheLogic - Posted April 19 2016 - 6:44 AM

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If it's P. occidentalis, then this would be about three months early, so it's hard to say one way or another. Infertile "queens" do lay eggs; I have it happen all the time. Just keep watching them, and if they start to get a slight curve to them, and one end a little more white and opaque than the other, they are probably turning into larvae, and your queen is fertile. If they're kept pretty warm, I think you should be able to notice changes after about a week. Also keep in mind she might eat the eggs and lay new ones, making it look as though the eggs are taking forever to develop.

I got 10 queens like that yesterday. They accept much queens? by now they are like crazy running on test tube but don't attack each other.


#13 Offline TheAnswerIsTheLogic - Posted April 19 2016 - 6:46 AM

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And also collected a worker and seems like the worker don't atack the queens.


#14 Offline Jonathan21700 - Posted April 19 2016 - 9:51 AM

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If it's P. occidentalis, then this would be about three months early, so it's hard to say one way or another. Infertile "queens" do lay eggs; I have it happen all the time. Just keep watching them, and if they start to get a slight curve to them, and one end a little more white and opaque than the other, they are probably turning into larvae, and your queen is fertile. If they're kept pretty warm, I think you should be able to notice changes after about a week. Also keep in mind she might eat the eggs and lay new ones, making it look as though the eggs are taking forever to develop.

I got 10 queens like that yesterday. They accept much queens? by now they are like crazy running on test tube but don't attack each other.

Where they black? You might have found Messor structor.


Edited by Jonathan21700, April 19 2016 - 9:52 AM.

#15 Offline TheAnswerIsTheLogic - Posted April 19 2016 - 9:56 AM

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If it's P. occidentalis, then this would be about three months early, so it's hard to say one way or another. Infertile "queens" do lay eggs; I have it happen all the time. Just keep watching them, and if they start to get a slight curve to them, and one end a little more white and opaque than the other, they are probably turning into larvae, and your queen is fertile. If they're kept pretty warm, I think you should be able to notice changes after about a week. Also keep in mind she might eat the eggs and lay new ones, making it look as though the eggs are taking forever to develop.

I got 10 queens like that yesterday. They accept much queens? by now they are like crazy running on test tube but don't attack each other.

Where they black? You might have found Messor structor.

 

not totaly just the abdomen its black and the other part its honey color.


#16 Offline Reacker - Posted April 19 2016 - 1:02 PM

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All ya'll need some books up in this forum:

 

http://www.amazon.co... North American

 

And some magnification:

 

http://www.amazon.co...s=geology loupe


#17 Offline Crystals - Posted April 20 2016 - 8:11 AM

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I have seen Manica and Myrmica fly in May before in Alberta. 

 

I know my location has been breaking heat records for the last 2 weeks, and if it is a similar trend in your location you could be seeing a normal spring flyer just out a month early.

 

We would need better close up pictures of a side view for an easier ID.


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#18 Offline LC3 - Posted April 20 2016 - 2:32 PM

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I have seen Manica and Myrmica fly in May before in Alberta. 

 

I know my location has been breaking heat records for the last 2 weeks, and if it is a similar trend in your location you could be seeing a normal spring flyer just out a month early.

 

We would need better close up pictures of a side view for an easier ID.

 

Not related to topic but have you ever thought of raising Manica?


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