84 replies to this topic

[Vendayn]

But people spread pathogens all the time, constantly unless they literally are in a bubble which happens rarely and is actually really sad. My point was more that the very act of living and doing day to day stuff spreads constant pathogens. I'll concede and maybe in the old days it was less an issue, because people rarely went outside their town or settlement. But these days, people travel the entire world in a day or two and no one is campaigning about stopping that because of the potential spread of pathogens. I find releasing native ants to be vastly less an issue than travelling somewhere. 

 

Of course, my definition of a native ant is pretty particular. I don't think a native ant in northern california is going to be the same native ant in southern california. Like there is Dorymyrmex bicolor and forelius pruinosus/mccooki. They are actually multiple species just considered the same and their genus/species needs a re-work. But getting Dorymyrmex bicolor from one city to another could actually be a non-native species to that area even if they look the same. I wouldn't release any ant unless I got it within 15-20 minute walking distance. Anything outside that could actually be a different species and at that point it isn't even the same area to begin with. Though its a moot point for me, because literally there is only Argentine ants and more Argentine ants, some Solenopsis invicta, more Argentine ants and lots of small cryptic non-native species. Pheidole megacephala too, though not nearly as widespread as Solenopsis invicta.

 

So in the end, I actually think releasing a native ant (within 20 minute walking distance) is vastly better than the continued spread of all these invasive ants and invasive plants and whatever else happens to be invasive. 

 

(edit:

Though to add. This wouldn't even be a problem or a thing to discuss/argue about if people didn't go in and terraform the environment into an environment that invasives love. If where I lived they had all native plants, it would be too dry for Argentine ants. Same with most other areas of (southern) California. The nonstop landscaping, construction and destruction of the land is definitely a huge problem for native wildlife in general. If all there was were native ants, I'll be honest, I wouldn't bother releasing native ants to begin with. But literally there is nothing else but invasives sadly. Its like southern california is one big invasive environment, mostly because people like lots of water and greenery sadly even if that isn't what (southern) California is like.

Edited by Vendayn, February 16 2020 - 5:39 PM.

[ANTdrew]

Vendayn, you’re in a monologue again.
Nick, many small yards equals a big difference. Again, is this ever going to happen? No.
California has a nice climate, booming economy, and beautiful people, but if you want ant diversity, I think you’d best move somewhere with killing frosts.

[Vendayn]

Vendayn, you’re in a monologue again.
Nick, many small yards equals a big difference. Again, is this ever going to happen? No.
California has a nice climate, booming economy, and beautiful people, but if you want ant diversity, I think you’d best move somewhere with killing frosts.

Sorry you aren't able to read a short post, must hurt your brain a lot. 

[NickAnter]

Which is exactly what I am going to do when I am finished with my education, and ready to start a business. Anywhere with snow and a cool summer; I hate the heat. Not to mention how expensive it would be for me to live here permanently.....

Edited by NickAnter, February 16 2020 - 5:58 PM.

[ANTdrew]

I read all your posts, which is why I’m responding. The grammar mistakes hurt me more. I am an English teacher.

[NickAnter]

I know you are not talking about me Antdrew, but I did put in a comma where there should have been a semicolon. Fixed now. And please people, don't turn this thread into one where it is a bunch of angry baboons with electronics electronically screeching at one another. I think it was made with a good purpose in mind, though with highly controversial results.

By the way, I mean no offense by the baboon statement.

[Vendayn]

I read all your posts, which is why I’m responding. The grammar mistakes hurt me more. I am an English teacher.

Well I'm not being graded for these posts. Nor am I being paid to post or type properly, so I don't feel the need to be 100% perfect with the posts. If this was my job and/or I was a professional, I'd actually take more time to properly post. Or if it was back on Antdude's forum, where he'd ban you for not posting properly. It got a little annoying though having topics take up 99% of the time with grammar and spelling corrections. Granted, I'd probably just move to discord if that happened since discord is vastly bigger. These forums are pretty niche (compared to the ant discord), though I prefer them to discord. I do try to not have spelling errors and proper grammar, but not so much that its 100% perfect. Except the spelling part, I actually look up words if I don't know how to spell it. No one would understand the post if there were words that weren't spelled correctly.

 

As for English. I actually got 100% on my English exams and had the highest score in English in the district I lived in at the time. And I had a better score than most English students in college. If I went to college, I'd probably nail English even though its been a long time since Highschool. Even though I imagine these posts wouldn't show that properly.

Edited by Vendayn, February 16 2020 - 6:10 PM.

[ANTdrew]

I know, man. I’m not judging, but you mentioned brain hurt. I brought up the one thing on this forum that actually does cause me mental pain, poor grammar. With that, I’m signing out of this thread. Native plants, that’s it, folks.

[Vendayn]

I know, man. I’m not judging, but you mentioned brain hurt. I brought up the one thing on this forum that actually does cause me mental pain, poor grammar. With that, I’m signing out of this thread. Native plants, that’s it, folks.

No problem. Sorry for the insult. But lets get thread back on track.

 

I think one person changing their yard does make a difference. For one, it does help native butterflies and other insects that may rely on them. In an area already dominated by Argentine ants, probably doesn't help with native ants. It does help with other things though.

[Ferox_Formicae]

I probably shouldn't get involved, but why are we arguing about this? Long story short, there's nothing that can be done. All of the invasives are here to stay, unless by some miracle a disease or something hits them. I suspect that the genetic similarity of Linepithema humile will catch up to them at some point. However, there is next to nothing puny humans can do about invasive species that are established like this. No, we can't release new exotics to try and force out the other species, we can't introduce more of a certain native species to give them a fighting chance, there is nothing we can do, and let's just end it at that. Broncos, while I do appreciate the fact that you started this post, as I've stated, there is nothing we can do, though I wish there were. Who knows though. Maybe we'll get lucky, and eventually the invasives will get a taste of their own medicine or something, and the native flora and fauna can finally breathe. The best thing we can really do is try and catch any more potential invaders before they can get introduced to a certain area they can get established. That means absolutely no bringing reproductive ants (or just ants in general) across borders illegally (Pogonomyrmex occidentalis is the exception here), or if you have received the proper permits to do so, do so responsibly and within reason. These permits are not meant to be given out willy-nilly to anyone who thinks, "You know what? I want to keep a colony of Atta texana in Florida! It can't be too hard to care for Atta." PPQ526's are reserved for those who are for one, experienced in the trade of keeping ants, and for two are keeping the ants for research purposes only. Not just so you can boast about it on social media or whatever. So how about we just call it a day here, and accept that as long as we do our part in preserving the nature around us and be sure no more invasives can get in (as they inevitably will), that's all we can do. Let's just stop this petty argument about grammar and Eciton or whatever. I hate seeing forum members fight.

[Vendayn]

I probably shouldn't get involved, but why are we arguing about this? Long story short, there's nothing that can be done. All of the invasives are here to stay, unless by some miracle a disease or something hits them. I suspect that the genetic similarity of Linepithema humile will catch up to them at some point. However, there is next to nothing puny humans can do about invasive species that are established like this. No, we can't release new exotics to try and force out the other species, we can't introduce more of a certain native species to give them a fighting chance, there is nothing we can do, and let's just end it at that. Broncos, while I do appreciate the fact that you started this post, as I've stated, there is nothing we can do, though I wish there were. Who knows though. Maybe we'll get lucky, and eventually the invasives will get a taste of their own medicine or something, and the native flora and fauna can finally breathe. The best thing we can really do is try and catch any more potential invaders before they can get introduced to a certain area they can get established. That means absolutely no bringing reproductive ants (or just ants in general) across borders illegally (Pogonomyrmex occidentalis is the exception here), or if you have received the proper permits to do so, do so responsibly and within reason. These permits are not meant to be given out willy-nilly to anyone who thinks, "You know what? I want to keep a colony of Atta texana in Florida! It can't be too hard to care for Atta." PPQ526's are reserved for those who are for one, experienced in the trade of keeping ants, and for two are keeping the ants for research purposes only. Not just so you can boast about it on social media or whatever. So how about we just call it a day here, and accept that as long as we do our part in preserving the nature around us and be sure no more invasives can get in (as they inevitably will), that's all we can do. Let's just stop this petty argument about grammar and Eciton or whatever. I hate seeing forum members fight.

I don't know about that. While they weren't captive, I dug up colonies of native ants that were about to be bulldozed+built upon and re-located them to nearby areas. San Diego had a time where they were building EVERYWHERE. Down there, I had success with re-location, but haven't tried that here. I re-located Pogonomyrmex californicus, Forelius pruinosus/mccooki and Dorymyrmex bicolor. For 7 years they did really good, only the Dorymyrmex bicolor died from the Forelius. However 7 years later both Pogonomyrmex and Forelius mccooki/pruinosus had spread, and the Forelius kicked out the Argentine ants in one (small) area. I moved though and haven't been down there in years, but probably still doing good.

 

Oh and Camponotus as well. They are a ground nesting Camponotus and I saved a few colonies. Just in time too, since a week later the entire area was bulldozed. They did good for the 7 years as well, and I hope they are still doing good. They are native, but forgot what species they were. I think they were Camponotus vicinus.

Edited by Vendayn, February 16 2020 - 8:27 PM.

[Vendayn]

GCSnelling, are you okay with relocating ants in terms of "saving" colonies from areas that are about to be constructed on and bulldozed? Cause I can concede and say that is a lot better than releasing just captive ants. I've done that a lot as I said in my above post, and moved the ants nearby and have had success with them. Not just to dig up random colonies that are completely fine, since I find that actually pretty wrong to disrupt the ecosystem like that. Just only ones in danger of being bulldozed and built-upon.

 

Cause I would think that is a lot better way to go about it, than just raising ants for years and releasing them. Which honestly finds less success than re-locating I found, anyway.

[AntsDakota]

I don't know about relocating, but I would keep them.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

 I suggest we start a petition. [if this works] It will notify the state and/or federal government of the environmental disasters and wars going on on OUR turf. Something like this would most likely make it into the news, spreading the information even more, making the government have to support it otherwise environmental groups who don't want the environment to be destroyed because of these invasive ants. This will most likely start a campaign of what is going on and by that time, the myrmcologists who were doing their homework would most likely have found a way (if not before) to stop the spreading of invasive species. By this time, most of the nation would know what's happening and hopefully making an effort to stop the spreading of invasive ant species, and saving the ecosystem and environment.       

[gcsnelling]

 I suggest we start a petition. [if this works] It will notify the state and/or federal government of the environmental disasters and wars going on on OUR turf. Something like this would most likely make it into the news, spreading the information even more, making the government have to support it otherwise environmental groups who don't want the environment to be destroyed because of these invasive ants. This will most likely start a campaign of what is going on and by that time, the myrmcologists who were doing their homework would most likely have found a way (if not before) to stop the spreading of invasive species. By this time, most of the nation would know what's happening and hopefully making an effort to stop the spreading of invasive ant species, and saving the ecosystem and environment.       

All this would do, if not laughed out of the country would be introduce scrutiny to an already fringe hobby does not  by government entities.

Edited by gcsnelling, February 19 2020 - 3:19 AM.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

True, so let's get back to the drawing board.

[SuperFrank]

As hobbyists there's not much you can do aside from killing invasive alates when you see them, as Aaron said, or planting native flora as Antdrew said. Maybe avoid collecting or disturbing species you know to be locally rare or in decline. You can also always join local conservation groups, do river/park/forest cleanups etc.

[ponerinecat]

How about we just live with the invasives and just do our best to stop them. Just limit their population to where they are not overpowering and natives will come back.

[Vendayn]

If people in California stopped the mass amount of watering and landscaping, it would have a big effect. Bigger than relocating native ants.

 

I have actually seen neighborhoods water less or stop watering all together because of the drought restrictions, and there were no Argentine ants but only native ants.

 

Sadly, where I live they sure love their green landscape. Here its like there is no drought at all, water as much as possible. But the areas that have respected drought restrictions actually have an increase in native ants (and other native life)

Edited by Vendayn, February 23 2020 - 11:53 AM.

[ponerinecat]

Hmm, landscaping may be a factor, but I see argentines in insanely dry regions all summer long.