14 replies to this topic

[Beast]

1. Location (on a map) of collection: Google Map Location

2. Date of collection: May 28, 2019
3. Habitat of collection: Dry farmed apple orchard
4. Length (from head to gaster): ~7mm
5. Color, hue, pattern and texture: Completely black
6. Distinguishing characteristics: Large mandibles, spikes at end of thorax. 
7. Distinguishing behavior: Seen in large organized foraging lines extending sometimes up to 100+ feet away from nest. Ants are seen carrying a variety of seeds back to the nest. Typically only 1 foraging line a day in a set direction to a set location. Foraging location changes daily. Larger colonies create visible pathways of disturbed and compacted soil. Workers are incredibly aggressive and will bite when provoked. 
8. Nest description: Uneven, but mostly flat circle of excavated dirt that extends up to 2 feet from center of the nest. Multiple nest entrances for larger colonies.

9. Nuptial flight time and date: ??? (I wish I knew!)

Images of ant

Spoiler

 
Images of nest

Spoiler

Images of habitat

Use street view on this location - Google Map Location

[VoidElecent]

Could be a Veromessor species. Maybe Veromessor pergandei?

Edited by VoidElecent, May 29 2019 - 7:05 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

I'd say Pogonomermex rugosus.

[Beast]

Could be a Veromessor species. Maybe Veromessor pergandei?

 

I'm pretty sure they are not Veromessor pergandei. The workers are all 6-7mm and it does not look like they are polymorphic. Ant wiki lists pergandei majors at 6mm, but the minors at 2.5mm. I've seen probably thousands of workers and as far as I can tell they are all about the same size and none of them are as small as 2.5mm. Also, their nest looks nothing like the pergandei nests I've seen in pictures. They are much less organized and do not have the traditional mound. 

 

I'd say Pogonomermex rugosus.

It doesn't look like Pogonomyrmex rugosus are as far north as where I found these. The location where these are is a few hundred miles from Southern California. According to AntWeb, none of these have been found within hundreds of miles.

[TennesseeAnts]

They are still Pogonomermex though.

[Ferox_Formicae]

They are still Pogonomermex though.

P. rugosus is the only fully black Pogonomyrmex.

[Beast]

I'd say Pogonomermex rugosus.

 

 

They are still Pogonomermex though.

P. rugosus is the only fully black Pogonomyrmex.

 

I went through all of the Pogonomyrmex species on antmaps.org and these are the only ones that are listed as relatively close to me:

Pogonomyrmex brevispinosus - found ~100 miles away, red/brown with no black variants. 

Pogonomyrmex californicus - found  ~100 miles away, only light red

Pogonomyrmex rugosus - found in a single location ~100 miles away, darker variants

Pogonomyrmex subdentatus - most found Pognomyrmex species in area. Listed as 'ferrugineous red'

Pogonomyrmex subnitidus - found in area. Listed as light to medium 'ferrugineous red'

 

Honestly, maybe both of you are correct?

 

The size for Pogonomyrmex rugosus is pretty spot-on. Ant wiki does state, "Body color varying from a rather uniform, very deep brownish black or brownish red to various combinations of brown, brownish red, dark red, yellowish red, and brownish black." so potentially my area could have just a very black variant.

 

The only strange part about all of this is the location. It looks like most of the species is found in the Pacific Southwest, which is a mostly desert climate. The area that they are found is only about 1/4 mile from redwood forests. The temperature in the area probably only gets above 70-80 degrees for a very select amount of days during the year. Most of the year it is very overcast and foggy due to the proximity to the ocean (hence redwood forests).

 

I would say that the only great corroborating evidence is that the wiki says that they love Erodium cicutarium seeds, which is exactly what the colonies seem to be primarily collecting. Also, it says, "This species forms large crater-like mounds similar to those of Pogonomyrmex barbatus. Rarely it forms a small mound a few cm higher than the surface of the ground." which is a great description of the nests. They really don't stick up much at all and are very spread out. 

 

So maybe this is solved? I think through process of elimination there really can't be any other contenders. I'm still somewhat hung up on the location and somewhat on the color. 

Edited by Beast, May 29 2019 - 8:06 AM.

[AntsBC]

AntDude is correct, these are indeed Pogonomyrmex rugosus.

 

According to AntMaps, P. rugosus is native to California, so hopefully that clears up the confusion there. Try not to solely rely on AntWiki for species - range maps, as they are often outdated and therefore inaccurate.

[gcsnelling]

You might want to consider Veromessor andrei. The propodeal spines are far to long and thin and P. rugosus does not occur that far north in California. I would consider any records from that area to be highly suspect.

Edited by gcsnelling, May 29 2019 - 3:54 PM.

[TennesseeAnts]

Do these have a sting? If so, these are Pogonomyrmex rugosus.

Edited by Ant_Dude2908, May 30 2019 - 3:11 AM.

[gcsnelling]

Do these have a sting? If so, these are Pogonomermex rugosus.

If you are going to offer an Id even if incorrect at least spell it right. Regardless these are not Pogonomyrmex rugosus,  not only are the spines too long and thin, the head is the wrong shape as is the mesosomal profile.

Edited by gcsnelling, May 29 2019 - 5:39 PM.

[Martialis]

Do you know what would be helpful?

 

Closer pictures.

[TennesseeAnts]

Do these have a sting? If so, these are Pogonomermex rugosus.

If you are going to offer an Id even if incorrect at least spell it right. Regardless these are not Pogonomyrmex rugosus,  not only are the spines too long and thin, the head is the wrong shape as is the mesosomal profile.

I had no idea Pogonomyrmex was auto correcting to Pogonomermex.

[Beast]

First, I want to thank everyone for replying to this. Hopefully I can clear a few things up for you!

 

AntDude is correct, these are indeed Pogonomyrmex rugosus.

 

According to AntMaps, P. rugosus is native to California, so hopefully that clears up the confusion there. Try not to solely rely on AntWiki for species - range maps, as they are often outdated and therefore inaccurate.

Yes, according to Ant Maps, P. rugosus is native to California, but California is a very large state and there is only one marking even remotely near me. I am adding a picture just to show range. If you follow AntsBC's link in the quote above, you can see the full range of these ants.

 

As you can see by the picture, there is one outlier that is ~100 miles north of my location, but no other P. rugosus has been found within a couple hundred miles.

 

You might want to consider Veromessor andrei. The propodeal spines are far to long and thin and P. rugosus does not occur that far north in California. I would consider any records from that area to be highly suspect.

This is what I was hung up on earlier in the post. The area that these ants are found in does not match the rest of its range. Every other area is mostly desert. I think you are getting somewhere with the V. andrei. Their range matches MUCH better than P. rugosus. Again, for the people who aren't super familiar with California, here is a picture:

 

 

 

Do these have a sting? If so, these are Pogonomyrmex rugosus.

No, definitely no sting. These only bite. They need to find a good place to latch on, and if you hold them flat on your palm they can't do much.

 

Do you know what would be helpful?

 

Closer pictures.

Yes, I apologize for the poor pictures. I only own a smartphone and these were the best I could get. These pictures are a very high resolution though (like 3000+ px I think), so if you click on them, you can zoom in closer. Here is a cropped zoom from one of my previous pictures.

[gcsnelling]

There is no doubt in my mind that these are Veromessor, almost certainly V. andrei.