65 replies to this topic

[Barristan]

Aren't honey bees not mainly used to pollinate fruits at huge plantations?

 

If you are all so pro native species, why not make a petition to forbid planting of:

 

• peaches
• melons
• apples
• pears
• walnuts
• oranges
• cherries
• etc

in the USA...

There are multiple studies that all show the same result: Honey bees are terrible pollinators. They are like the RIFA of the bee world, only they are "beneficial to humans because we like honey", so they don't get the same amount of hate that RIFA does.I

Bottom line: We don't need honey bees to survive. Come to think of it, we don't need any bees at all! More jobs!

 

That's why owners of huge fruit plantations pay bee keepers to move their bee hives near their plantations to pollinate their fruit trees...

Edited by Barristan, May 18 2019 - 9:31 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

That is why there are Orchard Mason bees in the U.S. They are far better than honey bees when it comes to fruits.

[Barristan]

That is why there are Orchard Mason bees in the U.S. They are far better than honey bees when it comes to fruits.

 

Maybe a single bee can pollinate more than a single honey bee, but the honey bee colony has a lot of workers and their hives can hold a lot more workers per area than a solitary bee species.

[AntPhycho]

There are multiple studies that all show the same result: Honey bees are terrible pollinators. They are like the RIFA of the bee world, only they are "beneficial to humans because we like honey", so they don't get the same amount of hate that RIFA does.I

Bottom line: We don't need honey bees to survive. Come to think of it, we don't need any bees at all! More jobs!

 

I am actually very interested in the "multiple studies" you found which state that "honey bees are terrible pollinators". Would you be kind enough to link me to those "multiple studies"?

[TennesseeAnts]

Honey bees even as a colony of 5,000 members, are not as efficient as a few hundred Orchard Mason bees.

[TennesseeAnts]

There are multiple studies that all show the same result: Honey bees are terrible pollinators. They are like the RIFA of the bee world, only they are "beneficial to humans because we like honey", so they don't get the same amount of hate that RIFA does.I
Bottom line: We don't need honey bees to survive. Come to think of it, we don't need any bees at all! More jobs!

I am actually very interested in the "multiple studies" you found which state that "honey bees are terrible pollinators". Would you be kind enough to link me to those "multiple studies"?

Yes I will.

Edit: one is a book though.

Edited by Ant_Dude2908, May 18 2019 - 9:34 AM.

[AntPhycho]

 

 

There are multiple studies that all show the same result: Honey bees are terrible pollinators. They are like the RIFA of the bee world, only they are "beneficial to humans because we like honey", so they don't get the same amount of hate that RIFA does.I
Bottom line: We don't need honey bees to survive. Come to think of it, we don't need any bees at all! More jobs!

I am actually very interested in the "multiple studies" you found which state that "honey bees are terrible pollinators". Would you be kind enough to link me to those "multiple studies"?

Yes I will.

Edit: one is a book though.

 

That is completely fine. I am just curious about the sources that all of this anti-honey bee rhetoric comes from. 

[gcsnelling]

It is known that honey bees are lousy pollinators actually, the only reason they are at all effective is due to strength in numbers. In addition they are known to circumvent the pollination entirely with many flowers by stealing the nectar from the outside of the flower without actually entering it. That the bees need  pollen as a food resource is unquestioned. Again I have seen on more occasions than I can count how effectively honey bees will exclude other bees from a resource by sheer weight of numbers and bullying behavior.

Edited by gcsnelling, May 18 2019 - 9:55 AM.

[TennesseeAnts]

We as people, need to look at the bigger picture, and not be near sighted. What will out ecosystems look like in 50 years, if we keep up this honey bee craze? How will that impact future generations? (Not just talking about honey bees)

[Barristan]

It is known that honey bees are lousy pollinators actually, the only reason they are at all effective is due to strength in numbers. In addition they are known to circumvent the pollination entirely with many flowers by stealing the nectar from the outside of the flower without actually entering it. That the bees need  pollen as a food resource is unquestioned. Again I have seen on more occasions than I can count how effectively honey bees will exclude other bees from a resource by sheer weight of numbers and bullying behavior.

 

So honey bees are actually better pollinators because they can grow to colony size of 8000 - 40000 workers and if you compare the arena which is needed for the same amount of solitary bees it is clear why fruit plantations' owners pay for honey bees as pollinators. Why should they if they could just provide nesting places for solitary bees, if it was as efficient?

 

A colony which growth that large also needs massive amounts of pollen as protein sources. 

 

But please post a study which compares pollination efficiency per nesting area.

[Barristan]

We as people, need to look at the bigger picture, and not be near sighted. What will out ecosystems look like in 50 years, if we keep up this honey bee craze? How will that impact future generations? (Not just talking about honey bees)

 

Yes I hope you sign for a petition to ban all non native fruits and other plants from the USA too.

 

The ecosystem won't be harmed in the long term by any non native species. In 250 million years the continents will collide again, this will be the end for the ecosystem right?

[TennesseeAnts]

It would be cheaper for the plantation owner to provide some nest boxes for native bees.

[TennesseeAnts]

We as people, need to look at the bigger picture, and not be near sighted. What will out ecosystems look like in 50 years, if we keep up this honey bee craze? How will that impact future generations? (Not just talking about honey bees)

 
Yes I hope you sign for a petition to ban all non native fruits and other plants from the USA too.
 
The ecosystem won't be harmed in the long term by any non native species. In 250 million years the continents will collide again, this will be the end for the ecosystem right?

We would have nuked ourselves by then.

[Barristan]

It would be cheaper for the plantation owner to provide some nest boxes for native bees.

 

No it won't because they'd already do that if it was

 

By the way 99.9% of all species which ever existed on earth are extinct now.

[ANTdrew]

Bernd Heinrich and others have shown clear correlation between honey bee populations and declines in bumble bees specifically. Honey bees are here to stay and have a place in our world. I welcome and celebrate them in my yard, but my primary focus for all of my plantings is helping native pollinators. Honey bees don’t really care for most of the natives in my yard except for asters, goldenrod, and mountain mint (which is like crack for them!). I seed my lawn with Dutch clover that honey bees adore. Looking out for native bees is certainly not snowflake propaganda.

Edited by ANTdrew, May 18 2019 - 11:00 AM.

[Barristan]

The honey bees which are used by beekeepers are highly optimized for honey production and have not much to do with the original form of the honey bee. You can't even find the native form anymore in Europe.

 

In my garden I have several "bee hotels" for solitary bees, mainly Osmia bicornis.

 

In the end solitary bees are probably better for the current ecosystem, but for industrialized plantations honey bees are mostly a must. But bumble bees are getting more popular for that purpose too because they can fly even at lower temperatures, they are currently bred and sold to plantations's owners in Germany for example.

[ANTdrew]

Native bees could be viable, but farmers would have to radically change how they plant their land. Hedgerows and border plantings with a wide variety of native plants would need to be incorporated instead of the barren monocultures typically seen. Groups such as the Xerces society are actively working to bring this about through education and grants for farmers willing to work with natives rather than against them.
As stated earlier, native bees are more efficient when one looks at pollination in lower temperatures and buzz pollination. Buzz pollination is when bees buzz their flight muscles at a specific frequency to release the pollen; honey bees do a very poor job at this. Crops such as tomatoes, blueberries, and peppers require buzz pollination, which is why bumble bees are favored by these farmers.

[Acutus]

. But bumble bees are getting more popular for that purpose too because they can fly even at lower temperatures, they are currently bred and sold to plantations's owners in Germany for example.

that's Cool!! Hope things like that start happening here!

 

There are fewer Honey Bees in the US today then there have been in the past. For one there are almost no long term "Wild" Honey Bee Hives anymore due to parasites and disease. Our Native Bees are awesome for sure and I doubt Honey Bees are the main reason for any decline in their populations.

HUMANS are the reason. All we do is modify any ecosystem to benefit OURSELVES. We don't think about anything else usually until it's too damn late to do anything about it.

Farmers have very little choice in the way they farm. They are told what to farm and how to farm it by huge corporations which is why we have these huge monocultures. If that ever changes it'll be because it has an adverse affect on Humans not because of any insects that's for sure.

 

Most non-commercial Honey Bee keepers just love Honey Bees like we like ants. Most also do plantings and setup nesting areas for Native Bees as well. At least most (including myself) that I know and interact with.

 

Lets also not play down the By Products of Honey Bees, Bees wax, Propolis, Queens Jelly, and Honey are all used in many of the products we use Daily. You can't get that stuff from any other source.

[FSTP]

If you eaten a Tomato, it was likely polinated by a bumble bee in a hot/hoop house somewhere. 

[Martialis]