19 replies to this topic

[cazantyl]

Hello everyone! I'm new to ant farms, but wanted to create a fun/modular formicarium that can be easily assembled in any number of different layouts. I've started sketching up a modular design and wanted to get some feedback on it so far.

 

Here's an album with some snapshots of the prototypes: http://imgur.com/a/z7qcd

 

Each room is 8mm thick. There are travel holes in the top, bottom, left and right of each room that are 4mm in size. As shown they can be configured in any way you like.

 

Once you have the layout the way you like it you'd simply glue/adhere the completed layout to two sheets of styrene so that you can see the ant's activities from any angle.

 

I'll be creating several additional addons for the farm (frames, feeding areas, outdoor roaming spots, larger rooms, different features, etc) but before continuing with the design and printing more prototypes, I wanted to confirm that my sizing measurements would be sufficient.

 

Obviously these can scale larger or smaller as needed, but seeing as it's the "dead" of winter and I don't currently have a queen, I'm having a hard time getting a solid sense of scale.

Any feedback on the layouts/designs/sizing so far?

 

As soon as I've finished the design, I'll post it on thingiverse for free. I'll post again here when they're done.

 

/u/noebl1 on Reddit has also inspired me to create a test tube feed attachment for the setup as well, but that will likely mean expanding the width to accommodate it. Is there a "golden standard" brand or type of test tubes that people use? I'd like to create the addon to work with most people's tubes. I've ordered these from Amazon, but not sure if they're really appropriate for housing/feed/hunting.

 

Thanks ahead of time for the help and feedback!

 

As an aside I live in Florida, and we don't really have a winter... Are there any ants in this area that may mate during this time of year or am I stuck waiting a few more months?

 

Note: I also posted this discussion on /r/ants but wasn't aware of this site until now. I figured I could also get some feedback from the users here.

[Loops117]

Welcome.

 

There's an /r/ants? what????

 

I checked out your design. I like it. I think if you made one for hydration, then you would be set.

Edited by Loops117, December 7 2016 - 11:37 AM.

[noebl1]

Welcome to the forum, and another reddit full circle That was me that referenced formiculture.com... which is now sending people here to /r/ants 

 

I like the design too; I'm all about modular though always have a hard time getting it the way I like.

[drtrmiller]

I'm working on a similar design, and have gone through over 40 different iterations over the past few months.

Because ideas of what may work in theory frequently fail to account for the myriad of behaviors and reactions exhibited by countless species of ants, you'll be best served by getting some experience keeping ants, before making habitats and accessories for them.

You may also learn a lot by purchasing habitats from experienced makers, examining, and reverse engineering the features that work, to incorporate into your own designs.

[sgheaton]

Haha! Loops you didn't know there was an ant subreddit either and I just comment on your other post about it!

[cazantyl]

I'm working on a similar design, and have gone through over 40 different iterations over the past few months.

Because ideas of what may work in theory frequently fail to account for the myriad of behaviors and reactions exhibited by countless species of ants, you'll be best served by getting some experience keeping ants, before making habitats and accessories for them.

You may also learn a lot by purchasing habitats from experienced makers, examining, and reverse engineering the features that work, to incorporate into your own designs.

 

Thanks for the heads up. Since it's unlikely I'll be able to obtain a queen during this time of the year: given your experience with what you're creating, is there anything that stands out as obviously flawed, or that definitely will not work with what you can see from my design so far? I realize I'm shooting in the dark here on the design but I figured I've got months before prime queen hunting season starts, so I can put that time to good use

[drtrmiller]

I see a module with a flush lid and bottom, and integrated male and female connectors. All these things point to an issue you'll experience with your tolerances that will lead to escapes for smaller ants.

I use a feeler gauge to test my connectors, and you would be surprised how ants can fit through incredibly tight gaps, even less than the width of a standard sheet of paper. As such, FDM technology using a single hard plastic is suboptimal for making mated connectors which require somewhat of a press fit.

[cazantyl]

I see a module with a flush lid and bottom, and integrated male and female connectors. All these things point to an issue you'll experience with your tolerances that will lead to escapes for smaller ants.

I use a feeler gauge to test my connectors, and you would be surprised how ants can fit through incredibly tight gaps, even less than the width of a standard sheet of paper. As such, FDM technology using a single hard plastic is suboptimal for making mated connectors which require somewhat of a press fit.

 

Thanks! I'll keep that in mind. The idea would be to use a cyanoacrylate glue to bind the gaps of your final layout before assembly to eliminate any spacing. Obviously you couldn't leave them just puzzle pieced together without issues The other side of it is that it's super easy to just create one solid case without the puzzled pieces. I'm currently printing one of those out now for testing but in the interim just to give you an idea:

 

http://imgur.com/6e1Jxtq

 

Once the files are pushed to thingiverse, any users without experience with 3D CAD software will be able to print, assemble and glue using the puzzle block version. More advanced users can design their layout in the above solid fashion in any CAD software by dragging and dropping. Then they can just print the completed design directly without having to worry about sealing any extra gaps.

 

Is there any other feedback you can provide?

[drtrmiller]

The fumes produced by CA glue are toxic to ants.

Think about ants the same as you would a saltwater shrimp, they're very sensitive to chemicals and other changes in their environment. Despite being highly adaptable, ants in nature still excavate materials like soil and wood to exert some control over their environment, such as temperature and humidity, and will relocate their nest if better conditions are discovered elsewhere. In captivity, such options are extremely limited, and so the environment must be precisely designed and regulated to ensure the continued health of the colony.

Again, I highly recommend keeping ants for a while before designing anything for them.

[cazantyl]

The fumes produced by CA glue are toxic to ants.

Think about ants the same as you would a saltwater shrimp, they're very sensitive to chemicals and other changes in their environment. Despite being highly adaptable, ants in nature still excavate materials like soil and wood to exert some control over their environment, such as temperature and humidity, and will relocate their nest if better conditions are discovered elsewhere. In captivity, such options are extremely limited, and so the environment must be precisely designed and regulated to ensure the continued health of the colony.

Again, I highly recommend keeping ants for a while before designing anything for them.

 

Thanks again. It's exactly this kind of information that I'm seeking while designing so that I don't make these mistakes and can pass them on to others. Again, it'll be months before queen season, so I'm just using that time to design, learn and grow. If I were to resign myself to just "keeping ants" for awhile, I'd make a lot of these mistakes and fail. That's why I'm seeking answers ahead of time

 

It may just be that I'm misunderstanding the tone of your posts, but you don't seem supportive of this at all (or very welcoming). Telling me to just "Keep ants" doesn't exactly help, and purchasing supplies from vendors (like yourself) is counter to what I'm trying to achieve: providing a cheap, working, safe alternative for people who own 3D printers. 

 

There's no reason why this can't be a community based project, which is why I'm seeking knowledge and assistance from people with more experience than me. Trial by error seems like a terrible suggestion when we're talking about the care of actual living creatures.

[drtrmiller]

Trial by error seems like a terrible suggestion when we're talking about the care of actual living creatures.

As an engineer, I was taught to believe nothing that anyone tells you, and only half of what you see with your own eyes. "Trial by error" is all we have in this hobby, since ants and their ways are so poorly understood.

Keep in mind that the final disposition of captive ants is destruction by freezing or burning, never release back into the wild. Ergo, every single ant that is kept by humans will die by human hands. This is definitely not a hobby for vegans.

Edited by drtrmiller, December 7 2016 - 2:33 PM.

[dspdrew]

Thanks again. It's exactly this kind of information that I'm seeking while designing so that I don't make these mistakes and can pass them on to others.

 

That's good, because you wouldn't believe how much time some of us have spent making mistakes like these. There's really no reason to do it all over again.

 

Without a lot of experience, the best way to get started is to read through journals.

[cazantyl]

 

As an engineer, I was taught to believe nothing that anyone tells you, and only half of what you see with your own eyes. "Trial by error" is all we have in this hobby, since ants and their ways are so poorly understood.

 

 

I had heard this quote from Poe when I was in college. I thought it was terrible advice then, I still think it's terrible advice now, at least from a scientific standpoint. The entire process of learning and growth from a scientific perspective is built on the experiences of the people that have gone before. If every human being had to learn how to create fire on their own, we wouldn't have the civilization that we have today. 

 

There are also a ton of fantastic books you can check out if you think that ants are that poorly understood. While there's still a lot to learn about the creatures, you should check The Ants by Bert Holldobler and Edward Wilson. It's a pretty fascinating read from a wild ant perspective. You're welcome to not believe any of it though

 

Keep in mind that the final disposition of captive ants is destruction by freezing or burning, never release back into the wild. Ergo, every single ant that is kept by humans will die by human hands. This is definitely not a hobby for vegans.

 

 

Nor did I say this was a hobby for vegans. That doesn't mean that you should expect every new person to the hobby to start from scratch. That's setting them up for failure, and will only lead to this hobby shrinking, not growing. I've been fascinated by myrmecology for a long time, as I'm sure many have, but this is just my first foray into planning on raising and watching ants from my home. My goal would be to pass on my knowledge to others (through the journals on this site) and to be able to provide cheaper alternatives to people who are new to the hobby (plenty of students have access to 3D printers at their colleges now, and encouraging students and adults to study ants is just healthy for the hobby in general).

 

Regardless, this is turning completely away from what I was hoping to achieve with this post, and I'd rather not have an argument on a forum with someone I don't know ("Then why are you on the internet?!" I DON'T KNOW?!).  I do honestly appreciate your feedback drtrmiller, and you're welcome to continue to provide any insights as you see fit, but for now let's just agree to disagree on the base methodology.

 

Onwards!

 

For anyone curious what the printed prototype of the 3D model looks like, I've added it to the album:

 

 

I've ordered several different types of test tubes off of Amazon to get a feel for what I like the most. Whenever they arrive, I'll work on adding a feeding area add-on to the system. I'll post an update here once they've arrived and I prototype that add-on for the enclosure.

Edited by cazantyl, December 8 2016 - 3:03 PM.

[cazantyl]

Received the test tubes I ordered from Amazon today. These aren't typical test tubes and are better considered storage tubes, but regardless, I'm pretty happy with them. For reference, here's a link to the ones I purchased:

 

https://www.amazon.c...0?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

While they are a little on the larger side, the best part about them in my opinion is that they have PCO-1881 compliant 2-liter-styled threaded heads. This allowed me to design an attachment that can be tightly screwed onto the enclosure and swapped out as necessary, while still providing a zero gap connection when screwed on. It also allows people to use a variety of different attachments, so long as they're compliant with the standard (in the US, that means all 2-liter bottles, most water and soda bottles, and many other sealable containers).

 

The goal here is that you can easily swap out food tubes without having to worry about the ants escaping due to loosely coupled test tubes. You can also provide larger feeding containers, or create other attachments (such as protein areas) that can be easily hooked together through the system. I may actually explore having the male to female coupling of each of the rooms use this same standard as the seal is water tight, and it should be less finicky than the puzzle arrangement.

 

Here are some images of the printed prototype with attached test tubes:

 

 

The next goal would be to explore the male to female coupling mentioned above, and to create a bug-parts-safe protein supply area. I'd also like to explore a semi-automatically closing "door" of sorts that seals off the tube openings whenever the tube is unscrewed (something along the lines of an iris door that you can close at will before removing the tube. See http://www.thingiver...om/thing:140048for an example).

Edited by cazantyl, December 8 2016 - 2:53 PM.

[Kevin]

Please embed your images. Click open image in new tab and copy the new link, or add .jpg to your links.

[cazantyl]

Please embed your images. Click open image in new tab and copy the new link, or add .jpg to your links.

 

I'm a new member so currently don't have the rights to do that (or at least I didn't when I tried earlier). As soon as I can, I will!

[Kevin]

 

Please embed your images. Click open image in new tab and copy the new link, or add .jpg to your links.

 

I'm a new member so currently don't have the rights to do that (or at least I didn't when I tried earlier). As soon as I can, I will!

 

I'm not sure that you need rights to do that. Please check the Handy Links thread and go to the how to post pictures article.

[cazantyl]

 

 

Please embed your images. Click open image in new tab and copy the new link, or add .jpg to your links.

 

I'm a new member so currently don't have the rights to do that (or at least I didn't when I tried earlier). As soon as I can, I will!

 

I'm not sure that you need rights to do that. Please check the Handy Links thread and go to the how to post pictures article.

 

 

I had tried it yesterday when I had just joined and a message appeared stating that I did not currently have authority to do that. I just updated my last post and it appears to be working now. Thanks for the heads up.

[Kevin]

Also, when that chamber is filled with ants, goodluck changing those tubes without getting escapees. You'd also be lucky if they don't nest in the tubes or tube chamber.

[cazantyl]

Also, when that chamber is filled with ants, goodluck changing those tubes without getting escapees. You'd also be lucky if they don't nest in the tubes or tube chamber.

 

Thanks for the feedback. Any suggestions on how to curb that behavior? I've planned a two-tube system for nest transfers (I understand from reading logs that this can take awhile), but if the ants nest in one, you can change the food in the other tube. Once they move to the other tube, you just swap which tube you're supplying. That's also why I'll be exploring some kind of door opening/closing system when the tubes are removed.