Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

Moving with a Permit


  • Please log in to reply
50 replies to this topic

#21 Offline klawfran3 - Posted July 18 2017 - 7:41 PM

klawfran3

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 256 posts

 

Come on guys, isn't it like, in the forum rules to not advise people to break the law? Also the USDA crawls over these boards looking for people breaking the law. It's not that hard to figure out real names of people. Please don't break the law, it's not a responsible thing to do and puts us other ant keepers who don't break them in bad light.

I moved from California to Wyoming and got rid of all of my colonies before I left since I didn't want to break any laws. It sucked to do, but it was worth it.  It's very easy to find ants up here, just start flipping rocks and logs and you'll find a ton of queens. So far I have one Myrmica and four Formica colonies, more than I had back in Cali. The thing about ant keeping is that it doesn't take long to start back up again if you have to get rid of them, you just go out and find a few queens or buy a couple from someone else and you're back in business. Finding queens is free and easy, dealing with the law for smuggling queen ants (which is a FELONY might I add) is neither of those things. Don't break the law

The law is to protect the native species right? 

 

I don't break the law, I translate it.

 

Never let the ants go.   The law to protect the native species (of ants and plants) is never broken.  I think this law makes sense!

 

But If Control is their law.... America is in bad shape, and I don't think it makes sense.

 

Obviously people can do what they want.  But if you never introduce the ants to the new state, where is the harm?  

 

I guess there could be accidental introduction...  I'll have to ponder this some more. :)

 

A mindset like that is quite detrimental to ecology.

Look at dart frogs for example... Some species such as Dendrobates tinctorius have over a dozen color forms and morphs throughout their native range, to the point where they look like different species. Sure, they may be the same species, but releasing one color form or variety into the habitat of another destroys their gene pool. Those subspecies or varieties have spent thousands upon thousands of years isolated from eachother and developed a specific and unique genetic diversity in their own habitat. Mixing them only creates muddled genes and varieties that are less adapted to survive in their native habitat, no matter how slight they are. It removes their diversity and thus changes their phenotype AND genotype to the point where you've permanently altered the species, *forever*. If the ones in the area you released them in were being naturally selected towards some type of new niche, you could possibly have destroyed the budding off of an entirely new subspecies.

The red fox, Vulpes vulpes has 45 seperate subspecies as another example, and I can tell you right now that putting a V. v. alasciensis (Alaskan red) in the middle east with a V. v. pusilla (white footed red fox) it would be outcompeted and die, or if it were to survive long enough to reproduce you've:

a. introduced foreign genes into a previously isolated genepool, reducing their genetic uniqueness and thus the variability and diversity of the entire species complex as a whole, and

b.allowed hybridized offspring to be created which will have a much lower success rate and possibly die off, creating unnecessary suffering or harm and disrupting the natural balance and lifecycle of the foxes.

This alone, the destruction of unique and irreplacable diversity should be enough to deter you from introducing nonnative individuals into other parts of their range, but if it doesn't, how about:

-the possibility of disease transfer, wiping out the native species (mites, viruses, bacteria, parasites, fungi, etc)

-the possibility you DIDN'T have the species you thought and you just introduced a new species into a new area

- The potential death of the entire colony, which is quite likely since the habitats are totally different from Colorado to Texas

-The fact that introducing a mature colony into a new ecosystem opens up a whole can of worms of competitive pressure on the native colonies there, hurting them and other species

-Oh and might I remind you that it is a FELONY to do that?

I am a Biological science and  Wildlife and fisheries management dual major. I know what I am talking about. The laws weren't put in place for you to pick and choose them at your will. The legislation DOES protect the native species for the reasons above plus more I've probably missed, and I can guarantee the people at the USDA knew about all that when they were writing them. Irresponsible ownership of exotic pets not only hurts the hobby but the environment itself.

The laws were put in place for a reason, it's best to follow them. We all do.

 

I apologize if what I wrote seems harsh or inflammatory, it wasn't my intention. This is exactly the stuff I study for my degrees and felt it was desperately needed. Please follow the laws, there is a reason they are there.


Edited by klawfran3, July 18 2017 - 8:06 PM.

  • gcsnelling, cpman and Cameron C. Thomas like this

This message brought to you by the Committee for the Education of Folks who Describe Arthropod Taxa as 'Not Interesting' (CEFDATNI)

#22 Offline VoidElecent - Posted July 18 2017 - 7:44 PM

VoidElecent

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,339 posts
  • LocationPhiladelphia, PA.

Wait...so I shouldn't just go ahead and steal this lady's purse? 

 

Nah, I think you're fine. I don't see a problem with it.


  • sgheaton likes this

#23 Offline sgheaton - Posted July 19 2017 - 4:53 AM

sgheaton

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 933 posts
  • LocationMinnesota

Well according to Ants_Texas, "I might as well try. Chances are small though." Can't wait to see how far that mentality gets him in life!


  • klawfran3 and VoidElecent like this

"I'm the search bar! Type questions into me and I'll search within the forums for an answer!"


#24 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted July 19 2017 - 6:13 PM

Ants_Texas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • LocationTexas

Well according to Ants_Texas, "I might as well try. Chances are small though." Can't wait to see how far that mentality gets him in life!

If I said I was totally going to get a permit and be all determined about it, I would be lying. 



#25 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted July 19 2017 - 6:15 PM

Ants_Texas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • LocationTexas

Probably not going to visit this post again. It just turned into exactly what I didn't want it to, a debate. If I don't get a permit, I'll probably hand my colonies over to Spamdy.



#26 Offline FeedTheAnts - Posted July 23 2017 - 3:47 PM

FeedTheAnts

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,238 posts
  • LocationVirginia

Just set the formicarium up with a tube reaching across the border to a formicarium on the other side and get them to move. See, no laws broken.

Joke BTW


  • TennesseeAnts likes this

I accidentally froze all my ants 


#27 Offline AntHUB - Posted February 9 2018 - 2:13 PM

AntHUB

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 156 posts
  • LocationParker, Colorado

you shouldn't be worried about that, your current colonies are super similar to mine you can catch all the species you currently have at the sand dunes.


President & founder of LHS Entomology Club, (available on discord) Check out my photography website! https://www.armyofinsects.com/ Email me with questions

at jk@uglyorangetruck.com (funny email, I know)

 


#28 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 2:49 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland

You need an APHIS permit. I have actually gotten one before. Because I emailed them about how long it would take, the guy was an ant keeper and said he would get working on my permit ASAP. 3 days later... got the permit XD

 

Apply. It's an easy application.


Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus


#29 Offline T.C. - Posted February 9 2018 - 2:57 PM

T.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts

You need an APHIS permit. I have actually gotten one before. Because I emailed them about how long it would take, the guy was an ant keeper and said he would get working on my permit ASAP. 3 days later... got the permit XD
 
Apply. It's an easy application.


Are you trying to tell me not only did they give a kid a permit, but you got it in three days as well?
  • Martialis and TennesseeAnts like this
“If I am killed for simply living, let death be kinder than man.” -Althea Davis

#30 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:04 PM

Ants_Texas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • LocationTexas

People are still posting on this thing? 



#31 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:04 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland

 

You need an APHIS permit. I have actually gotten one before. Because I emailed them about how long it would take, the guy was an ant keeper and said he would get working on my permit ASAP. 3 days later... got the permit XD
 
Apply. It's an easy application.


Are you trying to tell me not only did they give a kid a permit, but you got it in three days as well?

 

Yep! 


Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus


#32 Offline T.C. - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:05 PM

T.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts

You need an APHIS permit. I have actually gotten one before. Because I emailed them about how long it would take, the guy was an ant keeper and said he would get working on my permit ASAP. 3 days later... got the permit XD
 
Apply. It's an easy application.


Are you trying to tell me not only did they give a kid a permit, but you got it in three days as well?
Yep!

I'd be interested in seeing this.
“If I am killed for simply living, let death be kinder than man.” -Althea Davis

#33 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:05 PM

Ants_Texas

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 389 posts
  • LocationTexas

If people are looking for a conclusion to this topic, after I've actually been an antkeeper for a while, I'd rather start fresh if I move to a new state/country.


  • nurbs likes this

#34 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:06 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland

Ok. Let me get the application open and blur the personal stuff out.


Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus


#35 Offline T.C. - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:08 PM

T.C.

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 3,059 posts

Ok. Let me get the application open and blur the personal stuff out.


Anyone can apply (fill out an application). I wanna see the permit.
  • gcsnelling likes this
“If I am killed for simply living, let death be kinder than man.” -Althea Davis

#36 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:17 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland

I know.


Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus


#37 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:24 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland


When you try to figure out how to post a photo XD


Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus


#38 Offline Kevin - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:25 PM

Kevin

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 833 posts
  • LocationSouth Jersey

you shouldn't be worried about that, your current colonies are super similar to mine you can catch all the species you currently have at the sand dunes.

 

Thanks for necro-posting on a flame-war thread (notice the last post was July of 2017). These questions are completely unnecessary to ask at this point, I feel like every other week someone has to cause an uprising over the laws of plant pests. Not that it's not important to know the law - but it's extremely annoying to hear it all the time.


  • FeedTheAnts likes this

Hit "Like This" if it helped.


#39 Offline gcsnelling - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:26 PM

gcsnelling

    Expert

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,654 posts

I to would be interested in seeing the actual permit.



#40 Offline AntsMaryland - Posted February 9 2018 - 3:34 PM

AntsMaryland

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 543 posts
  • LocationMaryland

 m


Edited by AntsMaryland, February 9 2018 - 3:36 PM.

Aphaenogaster cf. rudis 

Tetramorium immigrans 

Tapinoma sessile

Formica subsericea

Pheidole sp.

Camponotus nearcticus





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users