10 replies to this topic

[Works4TheGood]

I presume that if I keep raising the temperature of a container filled with ants, the ants will eventually grow uncomfortable and begin to try to find a place to cool down. If my assumption is correct, can anyone give me an approximation of what temperature this is for most ants in the US? If you know of any supporting data, that would be really useful too!

I appreciate you reading this post! Thanks again in advance for any responses.

*** APPENDUM ***
My question could be better framed as follows:
Suppose we listed the max comfort temperature of every single contiguous US ant species. Can anyone take a stab at the average and standard deviation?

Edited by Works4TheGood, February 14 2017 - 7:23 PM.

[CrazyLegs]

I wish I could help. My captive ants here in Australia have survived temperatures close to 40C so far with no problems. I hope it doesn't get much hotter than that. Our longest day of the year has past so it should start cooling down here now.

[Serafine]

Depends entirely on the species. Most ants will grow pretty slow below 25°C - winter ants will die above that.
Heat tolerance is very very different from species to species, ants from arid and desert environments generally resist much more heat than ants from temperate regions.

[Works4TheGood]

Yes, I agree. Stark variation is very much expected. But even amid such dramatic variation, I've learned that roughly 80% of contiguous US ant species tend to conform to the same desired nest temperature gradient. I was hoping that a similar rule of thumb might exist regarding a safe, upper, outdoor temperature that covers an overwhelming portion of the contiguous US species. I'm not overly concerned with the outliers (e.g. Winter ants).

My question could be better framed as follows:
Suppose we listed the max comfort temperature of every single contiguous US ant species. Can anyone take a stab at the average and standard deviation?

Edited by Works4TheGood, February 14 2017 - 7:46 PM.

[Serafine]

I'd say about 38-40°C is a good guess (for the outworld not the nesting area, the nest is probably about 30°C).

Edited by Serafine, February 15 2017 - 10:35 AM.

[Mdrogun]

I'd say about 38-40°C is a good guess (for the outworld not the nesting area, the nest is probably about 30°C).

A lot of the ants I keep will die at 32-36°C. I wouldn't recommend keeping the outworld at 40°C. Have you personally ever tested any of the temps you're mentioning?

[Serafine]

I'm just guessing. That's why I said the nest shouldn't get higher than 30°C - as soon as the ants quit foraging you know that the outworld is too hot.

[Works4TheGood]

 

I'd say about 38-40°C is a good guess (for the outworld not the nesting area, the nest is probably about 30°C).

A lot of the ants I keep will die at 32-36°C. I wouldn't recommend keeping the outworld at 40°C. Have you personally ever tested any of the temps you're mentioning?

 

 

Mdrogun,

I was wondering if you might share how you learned this information so that I might be able to expand on it.  Was it from research?  Experimentation?  Unfortunate events (my specialty )?  Regardless, this is very useful info!

[Serafine]

I'm pretty sure we need a species table for that. Ants from the mediterranean regions (especially those preferring arid regions) or african ants are very likely to be able to deal with outworld temperatures of 35-40°C although it might severely limit their foraging duration. Ants from more temperate regions most likely not (although there's a large Formica hill at the border of the woods close to where I live and it's in a place that gets the full afternoon sun in a region that can get summer temperatures of up to 40°C in the shade).
 

Edited by Serafine, February 16 2017 - 6:40 AM.

[Works4TheGood]

Hi Serafine.  Thanks for taking interest in my question.  Just to clarify, my question was really just about the contiguous United States.  I agree with you that if we take all species across the world into account, then the answer would be pretty useless, just like you said.  

 

Just so that we're both on that same page, the per-species temperature that I keep referring to is a species' max comfort temperature.  In other words, suppose I take some ants of that species and throw them into a container with plenty of drinking water.  Then, suppose I start slowly heating one side of the container.  At what temperature will the ants begin to avoid the heated area?  I just wanted to be sure we're talking about the same measurement.

 

Like you, I too would really love to have a "species table" with this information, which is really why I suggested in my question that we just try to just imagine the list.  I say "imagine" because we're just not realistically going to find one  , which is why I'm relying on seasoned ant keepers like yourself to share what you've learned from experience.  Having visited Germany once, the weather seems similar to that of Pennsylvania USA, which is where I live.  Meaning, you have some very valuable experience!  So, thanks for your ongoing participation on this topic! 

[Serafine]

The place where I live can get up to 40°C (in the shade) during summer and down to -35°C during the winter. Carpenter ant hills can be found within the forests where it rarely gets above 30° even if it is hotter outside the forest but the Formica hills are often at the forest borders in places where they get the full afternoon sun.