24 replies to this topic

[Culture321]

Looking for Pheidole Rhea Qs. PM me. Thanks 👍

[ANTdrew]

Please stop.

[RushmoreAnts]

Looking for Pheidole Rhea Qs. PM me. Thanks

Pheidole rhea are not present in California and are therefore ILLEGAL for you to have. You have illegally requested ants from Florida, Texas, and AUSTRALIA??? before too. Please stop, or I'm reporting you to the United States Department of Agriculture.

[Culture321]

Says LEGAL in CA on Google.

[RushmoreAnts]

Says LEGAL in CA on Google.

Sources please? Google is often incorrect.

 

I trust the United States Government a little more than your word.

 

A Message from USDA to Ant Keepers | Home

 

According to the USDA, it is illegal to transport queen ants across state boundaries regardless of where they are native. If you catch a queen in Arizona and bring it home to California, that is ILLEGAL. Doesn't matter if it's native. The only exception is if you get a permit, which are difficult to obtain (and you must be 18).

 

And according to Region of Rage, a literal Myrmecologist and one of the most well respected and trustworthy people in all of ant keeping, Pheidole rhea is NOT native to California, and AntMaps is wrong in that aspect.

 

Are Pheidole rhea allowed in california? I live in the southernmost part of california. - General - Ants & Myrmecology Forum

 

So, if you actually do research on Google instead of putting a question into Google Gemini, you will find out that it is illegal.

[Culture321]

"It appears there's no specific ban on possessing Pheidole rhea ants in California. However, it's crucial to understand that California has regulations on importing, possessing, and transporting certain wildlife, including insects, to prevent the introduction of invasive species. Since Pheidole rhea is a relatively large and aggressive species, it's possible it could be subject to restrictions, especially if it's considered a potential threat to native ecosystems."

[RushmoreAnts]

"It appears there's no specific ban on possessing Pheidole rhea ants in California. However, it's crucial to understand that California has regulations on importing, possessing, and transporting certain wildlife, including insects, to prevent the introduction of invasive species. Since Pheidole rhea is a relatively large and aggressive species, it's possible it could be subject to restrictions, especially if it's considered a potential threat to native ecosystems."

I never said it was illegal to keep Pheidole rhea, but it is illegal to import it from different states. Seeing as Pheidole rhea is not native to California (read my above post), it is impossible for you to obtain them legally.

 

And the USDA regulates ALL species of ants, not just Pheidole rhea. California doesn't regulate ants, but the United States federal government does. 

Edited by RushmoreAnts, August 2 2025 - 2:52 PM.

[RushmoreAnts]

"It appears there's no specific ban on possessing Pheidole rhea ants in California. However, it's crucial to understand that California has regulations on importing, possessing, and transporting certain wildlife, including insects, to prevent the introduction of invasive species. Since Pheidole rhea is a relatively large and aggressive species, it's possible it could be subject to restrictions, especially if it's considered a potential threat to native ecosystems."

Also worth noting, this is not a source. You copied and pasted a chunk of text. Give me a link to the article you got this from. If I were to guess, this looks like AI, which is not a credible source.

[Mettcollsuss]

Says LEGAL in CA on Google.

 

Do you have a specific source for that? From my understanding of the laws, it would be legal to keep if you were to find some in CA, but they do not occur in CA so it is impossible to legally acquire them without permits. AntMaps does list them as present in CA, which may be where Google/this source is getting confused, but AntMaps seems to be incorrect here. AntMaps lists P. rhea as present in California citing Boulton & Ward, 2002, chapter 5 of "A New Island Biogeography of the Sea of Cortés". However, as far as I can tell, this book does not actually state that P. rhea is present in California. Perhaps there was some sort of confusion in the AntMaps system since the Sea of Cortés is also called the Gulf of California; I'm not entirely sure what this error stems from but it does appear to be an error.

Edited by Mettcollsuss, August 2 2025 - 2:58 PM.

[Culture321]

What about exporting? Legal to own but it's illegal to import?

[RushmoreAnts]

Legal to own but it's illegal to import?

Yes. If you catch Pheidole rhea in California, you can keep them. If you catch them in Arizona, Nevada, Texas, etc., you cannot take them back to California with you. You can't export them to other states either. If you catch ants in California, you can't bring them to Arizona.

 

So putting it simply: The only ant shops/sellers you can legally buy from are ones based in California, unless they have government-issued permits to ship to California. If they have permits, they will clearly state it in their shop.

Edited by RushmoreAnts, August 2 2025 - 3:04 PM.

[Mettcollsuss]

What about exporting? Legal to own but it's illegal to import?

Transporting ants across state lines, in any direction, requires a PPQ-526 permit. With the exception of certain quarantined species like Solenopsis invicta, a species can still be kept if it is invasive/nonnative, as long as it was caught locally (e.g. all the American antkeepers keeping Tetramorium immigrans).

[Culture321]

If I live in AZ & I have a permit. I can't ship it to CA to someone without a permit?

[RushmoreAnts]

If I live in AZ & I have a permit. I can't ship it to CA to someone without a permit?

Correct. If you cross a state border with a queen ant, you are breaking the law unless you have a permit.

[Mettcollsuss]

If I live in AZ & I have a permit. I can't ship it to CA to someone without a permit?

If you have a permit to sell rhea to CA, sure. However APHIS seems to generally only issue sales permits to states where the species occurs.

[Culture321]

What if I'm the buyer and the seller has a PPQ-526 permit inside the box they're shipping it in? It's legal to ship and to own in CA?

[RushmoreAnts]

What if I'm the buyer and the seller has a PPQ-526 permit inside the box they're shipping it in? It's legal to ship and to own in CA?

Yes. Only the seller needs to have a permit. If the seller has a permit, you can buy and own the ants in CA.

[Culture321]

It's legal to buy or sell any species of Ants in the US as long as there's a permit for transport. Legal to own P. Rhea but it's illegal to import or export without a permit for transport.

[Mettcollsuss]

The way current APHIS-permitted ant shops work, as far as I am aware, is that the seller has a permit to ship the ants and the buyer does not need one. However as I mentioned, ant shops only have permits to sell a species within its range — I am not sure if or how this may differ for selling a species outside of its range.

[Culture321]

Does the seller have to apply for a new permit each time for the same species or just once? Does the permit for that specific species expire?