16 replies to this topic

[Huch]

The reason for this thread is to share ideas on how to make a humidity/hydration system. I think figuring out a functioning humidity system is the most difficult part of formicarium design. So, here are some methods.

1. A cotton rope slightly compressed which runs the perimter of a flat formicarium. The rope would fit in a slot (tubelike). The tube would be open on one side throughout the length of the formicarium except at the corners, where it would compress into a smaller enclosed opening. Thie purpose of a chokepoint is to inhibit any ants that try to chew the rope up. In two opposite corners, I would put two resovoirs where water could be poured into. Above the tubelike structure would be a slot to slide the display glass in. The glass would not cover the resovoirs. The pain is designing the correct size of tube where the cotton is supposed to be.

2. Instead of rope, I would 3d print extremely small holes, maybe .1-.5 of ML, and have the tube fully enclosed minus the holes. I would see if the water would stay in the tube or flood the formicarium. I imagine that when the holes get small enough, the water would either flow very slowly or not at all, but may serve to humidify the nest.

3. Fine mesh floor in some spots for hydration. (It is a good idea that other people have floated on this forum).

4. Have a aquarium or vivarium with a mister, and bypass the whole problem. (Google zoo med mister, though there are cheaper ones). For temperature and moisture gradient, I imagine one could drill holes into two terrarium for a side by side setup, connected by tubes. Or, section off a larger aquarium,amd regulate using closed or screened lids and no mister in one section. A spray bottle can be used too.

Edited by Huch, September 30 2015 - 6:44 PM.

[Crystals]

When pouring grout, I add a narrow sheet of chamois cloth that touches the water chamber, and runs about 1cm behind the tunnels for more even hydration.

 

For when I really have to soak a grout or firebrick nest, I simply sit the nest in a shallow plate of water.

[antmaniac]

Soaking works very well, if you have certain material I suppose. The bigger the container and smaller the formicarium, less the heat and sun lights, then you only need to refill them after every month or two. It works outdoor too, rain would do the refill for you.

 

[dspdrew]

I have been through all sorts of different hydrating methods. One thing I think a lot of people overlook (I did myself at first) is that water will always flow downward until it no longer has a place to go. If you have a tank, reservoir, or anything storing water, and it's designed to flow one way or another to a lower area, no matter how slowly, it's going to continue to do so until the water level in the lower area is the same as the water level in the tank. In other words, you can easily end up with a flood or an empty tank... or both. Many times the extremely slow rate of water flow was what caused me to overlook this. The water may flow very slowly, but it's not going to stop until all of the water is level, and the nest is probably flooded. Now, if the rate of evaporation is faster than the rate the water is flowing, then you'll be fine, but humidity levels can fluctuate, and the line between a nest that's too dry, and a nest that's flooded may be thinner than this fluctuation in humidity.

 

Any of these methods can always be fixed by adding passive regulation to the water flow. This is done by sealing the tank or reservoir. A sealed tank will only let as much water out, as air gets in--the same way a test tube setup works. This is also used in things like ant liquid feeders, Sparkletts water dispensers and cat or dog water bowls. Since the air can only get in through the same hole the water comes out of, air will not be able to get in until enough water has evaporated to allow it to pass. Water then builds up at the hole, stopping any more air from coming in, and the cycle repeats. Gravity is the force that moves the water, while pressure is what regulates it.

 

Capillary action (shown in the previous post) is another way of moving water that has no chance of causing a flood. In this method, adhesion, with the help of cohesion is the force that moves the water, while gravity is what regulates it. The drawbacks to this of course, is the water tank or reservoir would always need to be lower than the hydrated surface, and since that's usually the bottom, or close to the bottom of the nest, it adds to the overall height of the formicarium.

[drtrmiller]

I have been through all sorts of different hydrating methods...

 

Any of these methods can always be fixed by creating a passive regulation to the water flow...

 

Capillary action (shown in the previous post) is another way of moving water that has no chance of causing a flood...

 

Did you hire a ghostwriter for this?  Very well-written and informative post! :~)

 

In my view, there is one big problem with a gravity-assisted hydration method—the formicarium may need to be turned upside-down in order to fill it.  At no point can the "seal" of the tank or reservoir be broken, so something like a cap or plug at the top to remove and refill would be useless without some way to seal the bottom, which would be a challenge.

 

I have a humidifier that has a big reservoir and works the way you describe.  It has a valve that is pushed open by a male fitting when the heavy reservoir is dropped onto the assembly.  When the valve is open, water flows out freely.  When it is closed, it is sealed completely.  I suppose this could be scaled, but I almost cringe at the thought of taking on such a project.

Edited by drtrmiller, September 29 2015 - 8:13 AM.

[dspdrew]

Haha, I have good writing days, and bad ones. Maybe this is the right day to send those emails to the CDFA.

 

Anyway, I know exactly what you're saying about refilling a sealed tank--that is a problem. There is one way to solve the problem sometimes depending on your design. If the water flow is slowed down enough, you'll have plenty of time to open the cap and refill the tank. So slowing the water down is not going to stop a flood in an open system, but it can certainly buy you time to refill a closed one. An example of this would be having the port blocked off by a piece of plaster or something with very small pores.

[Huch]

Anybody think using an IV regulator could work? I haven't done much research, but I think the flow rate can go down to 5ml an hour. I think the moisture loss rate would have to be the same for this to work.

[dspdrew]

Yeah, that would be no different than a gravity powered hydration system without regulation. If the device had an active regulation (regulated in the way we would need it regulated) that would be great, but stuff like that requires all sorts of sensors and whatnot, and it just introduces too many points of failure. I wouldn't mind seeing someone try it though.

[Huch]

It looks like reptile owners share some of the same issues. This thing looks neat.


After this post, I am just going to edit the original post to stop auto bumping.

[dspdrew]

After this post, I am just going to edit the original post to stop auto bumping.

 

Why?

[Huch]

Because I am going to keep looking for the next few days and will be posting a lot.

I just edited the top to add a formicarium within a terrarium with a mister. A couple of people on YouTube have this setup. It's like dodging the problem.

[Foogoo]

Anybody think using an IV regulator could work? I haven't done much research, but I think the flow rate can go down to 5ml an hour. I think the moisture loss rate would have to be the same for this to work.

A peristaltic pump? I think you can get those on ebay but I never tried. Where would the water pump to?

 

Regarding the reptile fogger, my fear would be over hydration and mold. That would be pretty neat for a large formicarium (i.e. long aquarium) though, have the fogger on one end and a heat lamp on the other so the ants can choose their adventure.

[dspdrew]

If you aren't keeping a species that lives in high humidity, I'm not sure why you would want to humidify the out world.

[Huch]

I think I would partition the tank 3x to create different levels, with the third partition just being the outworld and kept at the background /room humidity.

[bibiwood]

So far the best system I saw:

[dspdrew]

So far the best system I saw:

 

I'm assuming that's upside down. If that is what I think it is, it's a decent way of hydrating that I've seen and used myself before. It doesn't take up too much vertical space which is good, but the problem I have with that--and I have the same problem with the AntsCanada Hybrid nests--is the open tank which leads to water being spilled when moved, and worst of all, excessive evaporation.

[antmaniac]

 

So far the best system I saw:

 

 

I'm assuming that's upside down. If that is what I think it is, it's a decent way of hydrating that I've seen and used myself before. It doesn't take up too much vertical space which is good, but the problem I have with that--and I have the same problem with the AntsCanada Hybrid nests--is the open tank which leads to water being spilled when moved, and worst of all, excessive evaporation.

 

It is true that horizontal nest has excessive evaporation compares to vertical nest. If you have a lid over the container and refill the container through the holes it should minimise the water lost. So far I prefer vertical nest for small size species and horizontal nest for large size species.

 

Also when you moving the nests, for the vertical nests just move the container. For horizontal nests, you have detach the nest and the container first before moving them. Other option is make a base, using materials like plate, packaging foam, etc and use it to move the whole setup together. However, this would require extra spaces though.