8 replies to this topic

[Works4TheGood]

I read a highly unusual post from someone about a Forelius species (http://antfarm.yuku....mc#.VdqFQfZVhHw), ... 

 

"The next day, the Argentine ants completely ignore the Forelius ants (they don't even try to take their nest over or even attempt to attack them, just defend) and attack the Solenopsis xyloni colony instead. They fail to break through and...the Forelius actually come to DEFEND the S. xyloni and kill more Argentine ants." --Vendayn

 

The part that caught my attention was that "the Forelius actually come to DEFEND the S. xyloni".  Are such inter-species alliances documented anywhere else by reputable sources?

 

Seeing as how queens cannot communicate with one another, and the workers are hardly ambassadors, I'd have to believe that this alliance is just a perception.  I have a friend that likes to play Real-Time Strategy (RTS) games.  He once became outraged at the artificial intelligence (AI) because it had very cleverly outwitted him by exploiting an obscure hole in his strategy.  Being a software engineer, and also having significant familiarity with that particular game, I knew that the exploitation was actually just a coincidence - a mere time-plus-chance scenario - and that the AI was actually not all that clever at all.  I'd be tempted to think that that's what's going in in this perception of an alliance.  There's something fundamentally simple occurring in his observation, but we would tend to perceive it as an inter-species ant alliance.

 

I'd like to know what do you think!

 

~Dan

[kellakk]

I agree with you, I highly doubt that workers of one species would defend those of another unless there is some benefit.  We interpret observations through the lens of humanity, which can make our explanations for simple things like the actions of ants overly complex.

[Foogoo]

Have there been studies documented how ants differentiate species? I imagine it's more than just scent. Would it be possible to slowly introduce two colonies together to live harmoniously, of the same species, and of different species?

[LC3]

Have there been studies documented how ants differentiate species? I imagine it's more than just scent. Would it be possible to slowly introduce two colonies together to live harmoniously, of the same species, and of different species?

Um how about parasitic species? Do those count?

Maybe unrelated to topic but how about mirror turtle ants? (Cephalotes specularis) They don't live or depend on their host (Crematogaster) but instead "spy" on them, the Crematogaster find food and than the C.specularis "spies" see them and send in some workers who mimic and blend in with the Crematogaster to steal their food.

[Alza]

I don't see it as impossible for ant alliances to exist. But from what I have seen - Unless there is a lack of food, and competition is necessary, ants will fight for whatever they need to survive. If the environment sustains the colonies living in that area, it should be fine, but if an aggressive ant species, like linepithema humile attacks another ant colony, its possible that the forelius just attacked the colony releasing more aggressive pheromones, while avoiding contact with the xyloni. Its also possible that the solenopsis xyloni gaster flagged any forelius that came near it, which stopped the forelius from attacking them.

[Vendayn]

I found it ended being more likely the Forelius saw the Argentine ants as a major #1 threat, and the Solenopsis xyloni were a bit more of a coincidence in what happened.

 

With that said, if I recall correctly, the Forelius did end up winning to begin with. But, the valley had a tons of new housing built and the area became too irrigated. The Argentine ants probably won by now, sadly due to the irrigation. I don't even want to go back to the valley to look. It isn't much of a nature area anymore.

 

But, yeah. It was probably more the Forelius being aggressive and when the Argentine ants were attacking the S. xyloni, it was probably just barely within the Forelius territory and they went to attack to defend their "land". Like I said, probably the Argentine ants were seen as a major threat and didn't have much to do with the Solenopsis xyloni.

[William. T]

I found it ended being more likely the Forelius saw the Argentine ants as a major #1 threat, and the Solenopsis xyloni were a bit more of a coincidence in what happened.

 

With that said, if I recall correctly, the Forelius did end up winning to begin with. But, the valley had a tons of new housing built and the area became too irrigated. The Argentine ants probably won by now, sadly due to the irrigation. I don't even want to go back to the valley to look. It isn't much of a nature area anymore.

 

But, yeah. It was probably more the Forelius being aggressive and when the Argentine ants were attacking the S. xyloni, it was probably just barely within the Forelius territory and they went to attack to defend their "land". Like I said, probably the Argentine ants were seen as a major threat and didn't have much to do with the Solenopsis xyloni.

With T. Sessile in my area, they are not good fighters, but instead take all the food. So the Tetramorium SpE make sure to kill them first, and the neighboring Pheidole seems to jump in the fray. Neither ants nor ant keepers like that species.

[Works4TheGood]

Yesterday, I turned over a rock along side a trail and found what I believe was some species of Lasius that was partial parasitized by another Lasius species.  There were black and yellow ants working side-by-side frantically attempting to remove the queen's young from exposure.  I just thought it was really cool and I wondered how often ant-loving folks saw this in nature.

 

Regardless, I conceptually love the idea that ants would team up against a common enemy, but such stories seem incredibly rare in nature because it requires intelligence and courage triumphing over raw instinct.  Here's a great example - that famous Youtube video where the African buffalo finally saves its young from the lion (and crocodile) https://www.youtube....h?v=LU8DDYz68kM.

[William. T]

I guess ants are different from species. They lead lives based on cold logic, and if their worst enemy is in an even match with a lesser evil, why not destroy the enemy, especially if you can't on your own? Ants are different, and have different chemical signatures. Do we talk to orangutans? That's the same for ants. They calculate, and compare the odds.