24 replies to this topic

[Works4TheGood]

Hi all,

 

This is my first post, so I apologize if the location is incorrect.  If there's a better home elsewhere for this topic, please let me know and I'll see if I can move it.

 

I'm 33 now, and after about 12 hours of research into the ant-keeping hobby, I have finally captured what I believe are a few queen ants.  One of the first recommendations that ant-keepers give is to have someone ID your queens.  That is the purpose of this post.

 

These queens were captured while taking a stroll on a suburban home driveway in State College PA on 7/28/15.  If you have any information, please let me know 

 

 

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Edited by Works4TheGood, August 1 2015 - 7:18 AM.

[kellakk]

Let's see how off my guesses are this time (I'm pretty bad with IDing ants I haven't seen before).  I think your first may be Solenopsis carolinensis, while the second may be Stigmatomma pallipes?  I'm really unsure on these, hopefully someone more knowledgeable of east coast ants will chime in.

 

Also, I moved this to the appropriate subforum.

[AntsAreUs]

Let's see how off my guesses are this time (I'm pretty bad with IDing ants I haven't seen before).  I think your first may be Solenopsis carolinensis, while the second may be Stigmatomma pallipes?  I'm really unsure on these, hopefully someone more knowledgeable of east coast ants will chime in.

 

Also, I moved this to the appropriate subforum.

Definitely not Stigmatomma pallipes, they are very rare as I have only seen a worker before. They are very different looking from that and I think it might be Lasius latipes.

Edited by AntsAreUs, July 31 2015 - 6:38 PM.

[Crystals]

It is an ant, but not a species I am familiar with.

What size is the second queen?  Precise measurements in mm are needed.

 

PS. you might find this link handy - http://www.formicult...of-handy-links/

[Works4TheGood]

Kallak, your suggestion that the second (larger) queen may not be an ant at all caught me by surprise.  I honestly never doubted it before.  Looking back, I saw roughly 40 within just a few hours time after a rain - many still with wings - and some (presumably males) already dead - and I haven't seen any at all since.  That was several days ago and I've been actively looking for them.  This seems to fit the "nuptial flight" pattern of ants perfectly, but it's certainly not proof.

 

I'm guessing that the larger queen is only about 1/3 of an inch long.  The camera did a great job of magnifying her.  Her thorax looks like unlike any I've ever seen before, but then again, you simply would not see this kind of detail without magnification.

 

Regarding the first (smaller) queen, I'm assuming that Solenopsis carolinensis probably isn't quite right because antwiki.org suggests that they don't live in PA.  So unfortunately, I feel like the jury is still out on both of these guys.  Regardless, I very much appreciate everyone's responses so far and the time and attention they took.  Any other suggestions?

[Works4TheGood]

It is an ant, but not a species I am familiar with.

What size is the second queen?  Precise measurements in mm are needed.

 

PS. you might find this link handy - http://www.formicult...of-handy-links/

Hi Crystals.  You make a valid point when you say that you need the length.  According to my math, the second (larger) queen would be about 8.5 mm long.  That calculation was performed using the first picture, where a dime is known to have a diameter of 17.91 mm and the queen next to it is just under half that.  Thanks for asking.

[kellakk]

I don't think I suggested that the second queen wasn't an ant, did I?  AntWeb shows S. carolinensis as in your state, which is why that was my guess.  I agree that Stigmatomma wasn't a very good guess, Lasius latipes makes more sense. I was thrown off by the fact that the legs are covering the petiole and that it's so hairy!

[AntsAreUs]

I don't think I suggested that the second queen wasn't an ant, did I?  AntWeb shows S. carolinensis as in your state, which is why that was my guess.  I agree that Stigmatomma wasn't a very good guess, Lasius latipes makes more sense. I was thrown off by the fact that the legs are covering the petiole and that it's so hairy!

Yah, the hairiness is confusing me aswell.

[kellakk]

I think L. latipes is that hairy. Look at this one from bugguide:

 

 

[Works4TheGood]

Hi Kellakk,

 

Lasius latipes is an excellent suggestion and it seems to be a very close match to the second (large) queen, but I'm still uncertain. The pictures I've seen of Lasius latipes queens  (http://www.antwiki.o.../Lasius_latipes) suggest that queens should have massive legs like cicadas, and their hair is uniformly distributed around the head, thorax, and abdomen.  My queen's legs are more slender, the hair is dense and only noticeable on the thorax, and the coloring of mine is darker, redder, and less specular.  Finally, the antennae of my queen seems to be noticeably more slender than Lasius latipes.

 

Despite my reservations, you could still be right.  After all, there are of course variations among individuals within a species.  But to be quite honest, I'm hoping you're wrong; Lasius latipes is a temporary parasitic species, and I want nothing to do them.

 

Regarding "I don't think I suggested that the second queen wasn't an ant, did I?".  I believe I've mistakenly attributed that notion to you, when it was actually posed by someone else instead.  My apologies.  Please disregard.

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Edited by Works4TheGood, August 1 2015 - 8:12 AM.

[TheAnswerIsTheLogic]

You probably discovered a new species of ants (2-rd queen) i don't think I've seen that before

[Works4TheGood]

Kellakk,

 

After taking some more photos, I was able to get an angle of my queen (below) that made it look almost exactly like your Lasius latipes.  Why does your picture of Lasius latipes look so much different from the Lasius latipes in my photo from a few messages up above?

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Edited by Works4TheGood, August 1 2015 - 9:30 AM.

[LC3]

I think the second one might be Lasius claviger they look similar to L.latipes but don't have those chubby legs and a shorter abdomen not to mention L.claviger is found in Pennsylvania while L.latipes can be found around PA but not in it according to Antwiki and not in the East at all according to Antweb. The only thing that seems a bit of is the hair although the body looks the same the hair doesn't but maybe cause the hair is wet? I'm not sure if it's parasitic or not. 

Edited by LC3, August 1 2015 - 10:56 AM.

[Jonathan21700]

Why not Solenopsis molesta? Second queen is Lasius latipes.

[Works4TheGood]

So which species do you folks believe the 2nd (larger) queen is more likely to be; Lasius claviger or Lasius latipes?

 

Regarding the 1st (smaller) queen, the only option on the table at this time is Solenopsis molesta.  Do you folks all concur?

[Jonathan21700]

 I don't think its L. claviger more likely L. latipes

[kellakk]

Identifying Solenopsis to species is difficult without a microscope. Regardless, your small queen is definitely a thief ant and your larger queen is definitely Lasius and probably parasitic. If so you need to brood boost it with pupae from other Lasius.

[Works4TheGood]

So I'm new to ant keeping, but insanely curious.  Can someone please explain to me how I might know the difference between Solenopsis and Lasius?  Feel free to point me to an article if it's easier.  Also, my queens' lives likely depend on it! 

[LC3]

So I'm new to ant keeping, but insanely curious.  Can someone please explain to me how I might know the difference between Solenopsis and Lasius?  Feel free to point me to an article if it's easier.  Also, my queens' lives likely depend on it! 

One major difference between Lasius and Solenopsis is that one is a formacine ant and the other a myrmicine ant, Myrmicinae ants usually have to nodes between the thorax and gaster while formacines have one. There are also generally two types of Lasius; parasitic and non parasitic. Non parasitic Lasius kind of look like mini Formica. They (queens) have small heads and large ovalish gasters,workers have small heads and oval abdomens (although usually not very large compared to queens). Parasitic Lasius are usually yellowish in colour and when you crush them they emit a smell to that of a citrus fruit.Their queens usually have large heads and a small elongated gaster. I can't really help you with Solenopsis since I'm not to familiar with them and they don't usually occur in my area while Lasius is just everywhere. This is the basics and from what I know. hope this helps.

 

Here's a link to Alex Wild's website, It has nearly (if not all) the genera of ants and very nice photos. The best way to tell differences is to study the ants c:

 

Solenopsis: Click here

Lasius: Click here

[Works4TheGood]

Hi LC3,

 

Thanks for all the info.  I'm going to check out your links here in the near future.  Most of what you said made sense to me, however, I got hung up a bit on your first sentance, "One major difference between Lasius and Solenopsis is that one is a formacine ant and the other a myrmicine ant". So what's the difference between Lasius and Formacine?  And what's the difference between Solenopsis and Myrmacine?