31 replies to this topic

[AntsDakota]

I've recently read a very interesting study about recursive controlling behaviour in social insects.

Basically social insects like bees, wasps and ants do not only just need to know which task they have to do at a given time, they also need to know how good they are at a given task.

 

Not all insects in a colony are equal, in fact they often are very different. Some are more bold, some are better carriers than others, some excel at navigation in complex environments, some are better at rearing brood or regulating nest temperature.

An ant with poor navigation wandering off into the great unknown might not find back home and become a dead ant very quickly. Not bad if it happens once but if it's a regular thing that's a problem.

 

The study concluded eusocial insect workers do in fact have a pretty good idea about their strengths and weaknesses and so far scientists have no idea how they're doing it.

They must have either some form of self-awareness that requires very advanced neural processing or they have a very sophisticated trick we have not even begun to understand.

 

Do you have a link to the study? I'd like to read it.

[FloridaAnts]

I've recently read a very interesting study about recursive controlling behaviour in social insects.
Basically social insects like bees, wasps and ants do not only just need to know which task they have to do at a given time, they also need to know how good they are at a given task.
 
Not all insects in a colony are equal, in fact they often are very different. Some are more bold, some are better carriers than others, some excel at navigation in complex environments, some are better at rearing brood or regulating nest temperature.
An ant with poor navigation wandering off into the great unknown might not find back home and become a dead ant very quickly. Not bad if it happens once but if it's a regular thing that's a problem.
 
The study concluded eusocial insect workers do in fact have a pretty good idea about their strengths and weaknesses and so far scientists have no idea how they're doing it.
They must have either some form of self-awareness that requires very advanced neural processing or they have a very sophisticated trick we have not even begun to understand.

Do you have a link to the study? I'd like to read it.

It’s not exactly the same but…

The book “Ants at Work” by Deborah Gordon also presents something like this. An ant can remember how many encounters it has with another colony, and that’s how it chooses its job. It’s very interesting to read about. If a worker cannot find food in P. Barbatus, the ant will eventually “retire” from foraging an move to a task it is better at. If it continues to forage, it would be wasting valuable energy for the colony. If I am remembering correctly, it then moves on to nest work. If I actually didn’t read for long periods of time I would remember, but it is very complicated.

[futurebird]

"Ants at Work" is an excellent book. Especially if you keep Pogonomyrmex or mesor or any other "harvester" type of ant.

[DDD101DDD]

Most people who get gel ant farms aren't going to want to have a 5-30 year commitment to some ant colony. I bet you that if gel farms with just workers were taken off the market you'd see a bunch of people who get colonies, are unprepared/get bored, and release them into the wild on a scale way larger than what is happening now. 

[FloridaAnts]

Most people who get gel ant farms aren't going to want to have a 5-30 year commitment to some ant colony. I bet you that if gel farms with just workers were taken off the market you'd see a bunch of people who get colonies, are unprepared/get bored, and release them into the wild on a scale way larger than what is happening now.

Well, many people don’t care if they kill an ant, much less a whole colony. I think a lot may just stick them in the freezer, or some other way of killing them. It is sad, but true. People need large short lived ants… but you are definitely correct, they would release them. A solution is to send brood with the ants(But needs permits… ugh), that way they have a purpose

[bmb1bee]

 

Well, many people don’t care if they kill an ant, much less a whole colony. I think a lot may just stick them in the freezer, or some other way of killing them. It is sad, but true. People need large short lived ants… but you are definitely correct, they would release them. A solution is to send brood with the ants(But needs permits… ugh), that way they have a purpose

 

I get your point, although I think I can see why they haven't allowed the transportation of brood yet. They'd have to consider what stage of brood to be transported, including eggs, larvae, and pupae. Why? Because there's no quick way of telling if the brood contains queen or male alates, which if released, may impact the environment in a way that we haven't really considered yet. You can really only 100% tell if it's a queen when it reaches the pupal stage, which by then would probably become a worker in less than a week, so it wouldn't make sense to send just pupae if they'll grow up into workers fairly quickly.

[FloridaAnts]

Well, many people don’t care if they kill an ant, much less a whole colony. I think a lot may just stick them in the freezer, or some other way of killing them. It is sad, but true. People need large short lived ants… but you are definitely correct, they would release them. A solution is to send brood with the ants(But needs permits… ugh), that way they have a purpose

I get your point, although I think I can see why they haven't allowed the transportation of brood yet. They'd have to consider what stage of brood to be transported, including eggs, larvae, and pupae. Why? Because there's no quick way of telling if the brood contains queen or male alates, which if released, may impact the environment in a way that we haven't really considered yet. You can really only 100% tell if it's a queen when it reaches the pupal stage, which by then would probably become a worker in less than a week, so it wouldn't make sense to send just pupae if they'll grow up into workers fairly quickly.

Before I actually kept a colony, I tried a simple little ant farm with Pogonomyrmex(It was digging). They developed a seed chamber and laid some eggs after realizing they had no point. And actually, they do send pupae. They send pupae and 10 workers. They lived a few months when Pogonomyrmex workers are supposed to live a year max.

[bmb1bee]

 

 

 

 

Well, many people don’t care if they kill an ant, much less a whole colony. I think a lot may just stick them in the freezer, or some other way of killing them. It is sad, but true. People need large short lived ants… but you are definitely correct, they would release them. A solution is to send brood with the ants(But needs permits… ugh), that way they have a purpose

I get your point, although I think I can see why they haven't allowed the transportation of brood yet. They'd have to consider what stage of brood to be transported, including eggs, larvae, and pupae. Why? Because there's no quick way of telling if the brood contains queen or male alates, which if released, may impact the environment in a way that we haven't really considered yet. You can really only 100% tell if it's a queen when it reaches the pupal stage, which by then would probably become a worker in less than a week, so it wouldn't make sense to send just pupae if they'll grow up into workers fairly quickly.

Before I actually kept a colony, I tried a simple little ant farm with Pogonomyrmex(It was digging). They developed a seed chamber and laid some eggs after realizing they had no point. And actually, they do send pupae. They send pupae and 10 workers. They lived a few months when Pogonomyrmex workers are supposed to live a year max.

Really? The ones I got from Uncle Milton only had workers, not even pupae. They came in a plastic vial with a carrot, without any water, so a few died.

[FloridaAnts]

Well, many people don’t care if they kill an ant, much less a whole colony. I think a lot may just stick them in the freezer, or some other way of killing them. It is sad, but true. People need large short lived ants… but you are definitely correct, they would release them. A solution is to send brood with the ants(But needs permits… ugh), that way they have a purpose

I get your point, although I think I can see why they haven't allowed the transportation of brood yet. They'd have to consider what stage of brood to be transported, including eggs, larvae, and pupae. Why? Because there's no quick way of telling if the brood contains queen or male alates, which if released, may impact the environment in a way that we haven't really considered yet. You can really only 100% tell if it's a queen when it reaches the pupal stage, which by then would probably become a worker in less than a week, so it wouldn't make sense to send just pupae if they'll grow up into workers fairly quickly.

Before I actually kept a colony, I tried a simple little ant farm with Pogonomyrmex(It was digging). They developed a seed chamber and laid some eggs after realizing they had no point. And actually, they do send pupae. They send pupae and 10 workers. They lived a few months when Pogonomyrmex workers are supposed to live a year max.

Really? The ones I got from Uncle Milton only had workers, not even pupae. They came in a plastic vial with a carrot, without any water, so a few died.

. Most of the pupae was yellow or orange, but they still did come with it. Only 3 or 4 arrived dead if I am correct.

[Serafine]

Do you have a link to the study? I'd like to read it.

 

I stumbled over it by accident and just tried to find it but neither google nor google scholar were capable of finding it. Unfortunately i forgot the title of the study and apparently there is a MASSIVE amount of research done on self-controlling and recursive behavior that has nothing do with worker task choice at all.

[bmb1bee]

Most of the pupae was yellow or orange, but they still did come with it. Only 3 or 4 arrived dead if I am correct.

 

Probably because I live in Cali and they have way stricter laws.

Edited by bmb1bee, July 31 2022 - 5:08 PM.

[Colony215998]

Is it wrong to cut that tree down?

I'd say yes. Is it because it's conscious? Nah.

Technically speaking trees can react to outside stimuli and in groups like forests can communicate basic information via the root system, especially through mycelium. So one could make the argument that trees, and especially forests, are sentient or conscious as well. Humans are sapient on top of being sentient, which is a different thing entirely.

Is it wrong to cut that tree down?

I'd say yes. Is it because it's conscious? Nah.

Technically speaking trees can react to outside stimuli and in groups like forests can communicate basic information via the root system, especially through mycelium. So one could make the argument that trees, and especially forests, are sentient or conscious as well. Humans are sapient on top of being sentient, which is a different thing entirely.