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Whoa… reproductives already?

Started By Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* , Apr 18 2022 7:45 AM

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19 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 18 2022 - 7:45 AM

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Hello!
Back in December, I caught an Odontomachus queen who layed eggs and brought forth nanitics. Today, the most recent cocoon hatched… and out came a male. Why is this happening? Is this common to get workers then males? I have seen this queen get pysogastric(Probably butchered spelling) and lay large batches of eggs. I also saw this happened in someone’s D. bureni journal(Male production after small amounts of workers)


Any thoughts?

#2 Offline OiledOlives - Posted April 18 2022 - 7:48 AM

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Ponerines normally get alates at low worker counts.


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Youtube: Atlantic Ants - YouTube
Website: Ants for Sale - Atlantic Ants

#3 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 18 2022 - 7:52 AM

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Hmm. Wonder if I’ll see some females(reproductives). May make it easier on me to predict Odonotmachus flights. There is one coccon left in the batch still…

Edited by SolenopsisKeeper-, April 18 2022 - 7:52 AM.

#4 Offline Manitobant - Posted April 18 2022 - 8:06 AM

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Odontomachus queens are quite prone to laying random males for some reason. These are usually just flukes though and aren’t any cause for concern.
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My journals:

Polyergus Mexicanus: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry175528
Lasius minutus: https://www.formicul...cs/#entry174811
Lasius latipes: https://www.formicul...gs/#entry206449
General acanthomyops journal: https://www.formicul...yops-with-eggs/

#5 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 18 2022 - 8:08 AM

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Ok, thanks for the info! Last time this happened they immediately killed the male for some reason, but not the workers that followed. They did have enough food… guess the queen wants more mouths to feed.

Edited by SolenopsisKeeper-, April 18 2022 - 8:08 AM.

#6 Offline ZTYguy - Posted April 18 2022 - 2:42 PM

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Colonies will normally kill off any alates while in Larval or Pupal form and when you see a male alate in a small colony it means that they just happened to miss it. For instance in my Acromyrmex versicolor I have seen at least 2 alate larva and they were both eaten so it is not that rare.
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Currently: Considering moving to Australia
Reason: Myrmecia

#7 Online RushmoreAnts - Posted April 18 2022 - 4:08 PM

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Odontomachus queens are quite prone to laying random males for some reason. These are usually just flukes though and aren’t any cause for concern.

Yeah; if anything, it's beneficial since the legitimate larvae get another food source. That behavior is even less unusual in ants, and is called laying "trophic" eggs.


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#8 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 18 2022 - 7:41 PM

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I read in a book that some eggs are infertile, on purpose, to use as a food source for the larvae. This is quite clear in my Camponotus colony which lays more than 100 eggs a batch and just recently passed 100 workers.

#9 Offline OiledOlives - Posted April 19 2022 - 4:57 AM

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I read in a book that some eggs are infertile, on purpose, to use as a food source for the larvae. This is quite clear in my Camponotus colony which lays more than 100 eggs a batch and just recently passed 100 workers.

That is what trophic eggs are.


Youtube: Atlantic Ants - YouTube
Website: Ants for Sale - Atlantic Ants

#10 Online RushmoreAnts - Posted April 19 2022 - 10:52 AM

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Yes, precisely. That's one example of its commonality. 


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis

#11 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 19 2022 - 2:08 PM

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I read in a book that some eggs are infertile, on purpose, to use as a food source for the larvae. This is quite clear in my Camponotus colony which lays more than 100 eggs a batch and just recently passed 100 workers.

That is what trophic eggs are.

Thanks for the information. Now I need to update my vocabulary!

#12 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 19 2022 - 6:01 PM

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I just got a thought, do male ants curl up in cocoons? When the Odontomachus workers carry males around, he goes stiff like a stick, curling antennae. When workers are transported with each other, they are curled up. Is it the same inside the cocoons?

#13 Offline ZTYguy - Posted April 19 2022 - 6:30 PM

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It’s basically their version of a fetal position. It’s like if we curled up into a ball whenever someone picked us up so yes.
Currently: Considering moving to Australia
Reason: Myrmecia

#14 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 19 2022 - 7:16 PM

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Ok, so I think the second coccon is a worker. Funny thing is, the make cocoon enclosed AFTER the worker cocoon. I have been getting told males take longer to develop… maybe because males are same size as workers but don’t have those massive jaws?

#15 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 22 2022 - 12:11 PM

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I was wrong. A second male was produced! That was the last ant in the batch… 2 coccon batch, both males….

#16 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 22 2022 - 12:15 PM

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Also, there is a coccon in the nest sliced open. It looks like a white worker…(From shape of head)

#17 Offline Leptomyrmx - Posted April 22 2022 - 3:42 PM

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Yeah, my 12w Iridomyrmex purpureus did this, I got some goot footage of them killing a male pupa. I don't think it's anything to worry about unless there's a lot more males.


My Ants:

Colonies: Camponotus humilior 1w, Opisthopsis rufithorax 11w, Aphaenogaster longiceps ~5w, Pheidole sp. ~235w ~15m, Iridomyrmex sp. 2q 1w, Brachyponera lutea 6w, Crematogaster sp. ~20w, Podomyrma sp. 1w

Queens: Polyrhachis cf. robinsoni, Polyrhachis (Campomyrma) sp. (likely infertile)

Previously Kept: Colobopsis gasseri, Technomyrmex sp., Rhytidoponera victorae, Nylanderia cf. rosae, Myrmecia brevinoda/forficata, Polyrhachis australis, Solenopsis/Monomorium

Key: Q = Queen, W = Worker, M = Major

Youtube Channel: Ants of Sydney - YouTube

Patreon (for YouTube channel): https://www.patreon.com/antsofsydney

#18 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 23 2022 - 7:19 AM

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Also, I made a previous post that I caught a male climbing on smooth surfaces. I was told they could have Cotten fibers on their feet, or dirts specs. What’s the odds that workers don’t that foraging on small dirt particles and that the newborn males can get something stuck to its feet and get the ability to climb on smooth acrylic(Let me remind you upside down)

#19 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 24 2022 - 8:12 AM

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More cocoons being spun now. Surprised of how fast these larvae have developed;It’s only been 2 weeks

#20 Offline Guest_SolenopsisKeeper_* - Posted April 27 2022 - 6:44 PM

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Update!


I am not even close to sure why, but one of the males is having nuptial flight even though I haven’t given the ants water in the outworld temperature in house is 70ish, and I doubt the air pressure is right. It’s only one male, as I think the others exoskeleton hasn’t hardened fully yet.
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