34 replies to this topic

[MinigunL5]

Don't forget there's also a polygyous population of S. invicta and they might be adapting to colder temperatures.

How far north could they spread?

[DDD101DDD]

 

Don't forget there's also a polygyous population of S. invicta and they might be adapting to colder temperatures.

How far north could they spread?

 

I don't know.

[Ants_Dakota]

probably will never make it here. that is my hope.

[Vendayn]

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

Edited by Vendayn, November 25 2020 - 4:46 PM.

[ponerinecat]

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

Dunno about megacephala in particular, but S. invicta have been shown to decimate Pheidole in the lab, even in small groups. Then again the colony size and strength of Pheidole as a genus is hugely variable, megacephala are at an extreme end of the spectrum. Would be interesting to see how they react to overlapping ranges, which seems likely considering they've been spread to roughly all the same places.

[Vendayn]

 

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

Dunno about megacephala in particular, but S. invicta have been shown to decimate Pheidole in the lab, even in small groups. Then again the colony size and strength of Pheidole as a genus is hugely variable, megacephala are at an extreme end of the spectrum. Would be interesting to see how they react to overlapping ranges, which seems likely considering they've been spread to roughly all the same places.

 

Their habitats are pretty similar really, in terms of moisture content. Just Pheidole being more moisture dependent.

 

So, Pheidole megacephala have very evolved fighting tactics. Which I'm positive humans learned specifically from them (unless another ant does similar things, but I haven't seen it). They do have the basic surround the enemy and pull them apart technique. But...

 

When in heavy combat with Argentine ants, they'll keep the Argentine ants busy on the front line. But then another group of Pheidole ants goes around, cuts off the previous front line war, meaning the front line of Argentine ants gets cut off from reinforcements and then quickly slaughtered not long after. Then a new front appears. Seems to only work in open areas though. I haven't even seen Solenopsis invicta fight like this against Argentine ants. Though Solenopsis invicta fight better than Argentine ants do.

 

Argentine ants just use the occupy approach, swarm an area and occupy it with numbers. That is literally the only thing I ever see them do. The Pheidole megacephala often defeat this battle technique really easily. Plus Pheidole have at least three battle tactics depending on the situation, compared to the only single one Argentine ants have. 

 

The thing with the occupy approach is it only works if they are dominant. The thing is, they do initially kill the Pheidole workers in the occupy zone. Except...the Pheidole just reinforce even faster and more ants (Pheidole megacephala recruit vastly better than Argentine ants do), the Argentine ants don't know how to respond because its the only strategy they have and it didn't work, and most die or retreat (they end up losing far more numbers than they actually killed).

 

How advanced the Pheidole megacephala battle tactics are, probably makes them the most evolved invasive ant. I'm not aware of another invasive ant that has so many battle tactics, that are pretty complex. Two tactics for attacking (one that I find is very advanced for any animal or insect), and one for defending. Then a niche situation one for defending, but its niche so I don't really count it. If that makes them the top worse, dunno. But I never see any (invasive) ant fight like they do, and never see even native Pheidole fight like they do.

Edited by Vendayn, November 25 2020 - 7:19 PM.

[ArmyAntz]

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

I've visited countries that have year-round tropical climates before, and in my experience P. megacephala are always extremely dominant in disturbed, human-occupied areas, and very aggressive to other ant species.

But like you said they can never survive in cold or dry climates, and in my opinion means they can't be a worst invasive species in most places.

Edited by ArmyAntz, November 26 2020 - 4:45 AM.

[ArmyAntz]

 

Don't forget there's also a polygyous population of S. invicta and they might be adapting to colder temperatures.

How far north could they spread?

 

Here where I am they are very restricted to expanding because of our extreme winters, so they won't do good much further north.

[NickAnter]

I think that, in general, ants with better recruitment become more dominant. They do not even have to fight, but rather eat all the food, so the other food needy giant invasive colonies leave, with no epic battles. Pheidole navigans are very good at this, often thinning out argentine numbers in the areas near their nests. Nylanderia vividula, a native species, does this to some extent, but will usually end up killed by argentines. Pheidole are far better at holding their own it seems. And the argentines never bother B. patagonicus, which I find interesting.

[Vendayn]

 

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

I've visited countries that have year-round tropical climates before, and in my experience P. megacephala are always extremely dominant in disturbed, human-occupied areas, and very aggressive to other ant species.

But like you said they can never survive in cold or dry climates, and in my opinion means they can't be a worst invasive species in most places.

 

I think the dry climate is a little moot tbh. Before that. I haven't been really outside california, but been to england as the only actual place outside california/us and london has argentine ants living in their city because how warm the city ecosystem is and their ability to also survive indoors. Granted argentine ants can tolerate it a bit cooler than pheidole megacephala can, so I dunno how they'd do there. But pheidole megacephala LOVE the indoors and will equally live in wood and trees as they do in the ground, so in theory the similar can happen with a lot of invasive ants. But its an interesting dynamic that may change (some) invasive ants to survive (and dominate) in cities, even extremely cold ones, when they otherwise wouldn't even survive anywhere in the region at all.

 

The wet climate though I don't really think matters at all for ants that require that. If it did, argentine ants and solenopsis invicta wouldn't even be a thing either...I find its the same in a lot of cities in the US, and I can't speak for outside of it (as far as nations/cities with dry climates go). But..."hmmm, this is a desert...LETS GREEN IT UP!". Like palm springs is in flat out middle of the desert here in california and they made it an artificial oasis that Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants (mostly. S. invicta these days) thrive in. Pretty much most of California both current dominated invasive ants would be a mere memory of a threat if it wasn't for all the irrigation. They'd survive in pockets, but that is all. And seen enough videos of other cities that its pretty much every US city that does this. Even with the water limits from the past, didn't matter when the hollywood actors watered as much as ever and palm springs was as green as ever.

 

When people stop artificially terraforming dry landscapes, the vast majority of areas the currently 2 dominate invasive ants in California (Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants) will suddenly go away in almost all areas. But I don't see that happening in our lifetimes. The point being, as it stands, I don't really think there is a downside to an ant requiring a wet climate as far as that point goes against Pheidole megacephala. The cold would be more so, and be the big limiting factor. But, I mean, a huge portion of the US is warm enough for them across the south of the US and there is enough irrigation and water landscapes that who knows. They just won't ever reach (and thrive) in the cold states, unless they happen to replicate Argentine ants in london and end up making a network of colonies in a bunch of buildings in a metropolis. But, I don't really see that happening, granted didn't see that happening with Argentine ants either or Solenopsis invicta adapting so fast.

Edited by Vendayn, November 26 2020 - 7:31 AM.

[Vendayn]

Though...the Solenopsis invicta adapting so fast to the cold gives them a run for the money for the worse. I mean...there is very few ants that can literally do that to begin with even given a lot of time. While I don't see them as nearly advanced as Pheidole megacephala honestly, they are still much better at fighting than Argentine ants and mostly win against them. And their ability to adapt rather quickly to cold temperatures is pretty insane. If you took say Atta from south america, waited 1000 years in a cold climate, they'd still never adapt. That is a huge thing for an invasive ant.

[ArmyAntz]

 

 

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

I've visited countries that have year-round tropical climates before, and in my experience P. megacephala are always extremely dominant in disturbed, human-occupied areas, and very aggressive to other ant species.

But like you said they can never survive in cold or dry climates, and in my opinion means they can't be a worst invasive species in most places.

 

I think the dry climate is a little moot tbh. Before that. I haven't been really outside california, but been to england as the only actual place outside california/us and london has argentine ants living in their city because how warm the city ecosystem is and their ability to also survive indoors. Granted argentine ants can tolerate it a bit cooler than pheidole megacephala can, so I dunno how they'd do there. But pheidole megacephala LOVE the indoors and will equally live in wood and trees as they do in the ground, so in theory the similar can happen with a lot of invasive ants. But its an interesting dynamic that may change (some) invasive ants to survive (and dominate) in cities, even extremely cold ones, when they otherwise wouldn't even survive anywhere in the region at all.

 

The wet climate though I don't really think matters at all for ants that require that. If it did, argentine ants and solenopsis invicta wouldn't even be a thing either...I find its the same in a lot of cities in the US, and I can't speak for outside of it (as far as nations/cities with dry climates go). But..."hmmm, this is a desert...LETS GREEN IT UP!". Like palm springs is in flat out middle of the desert here in california and they made it an artificial oasis that Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants (mostly. S. invicta these days) thrive in. Pretty much most of California both current dominated invasive ants would be a mere memory of a threat if it wasn't for all the irrigation. They'd survive in pockets, but that is all. And seen enough videos of other cities that its pretty much every US city that does this. Even with the water limits from the past, didn't matter when the hollywood actors watered as much as ever and palm springs was as green as ever.

 

When people stop artificially terraforming dry landscapes, the vast majority of areas the currently 2 dominate invasive ants in California (Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants) will suddenly go away in almost all areas. But I don't see that happening in our lifetimes. The point being, as it stands, I don't really think there is a downside to an ant requiring a wet climate as far as that point goes against Pheidole megacephala. The cold would be more so, and be the big limiting factor. But, I mean, a huge portion of the US is warm enough for them across the south of the US and there is enough irrigation and water landscapes that who knows. They just won't ever reach (and thrive) in the cold states, unless they happen to replicate Argentine ants in london and end up making a network of colonies in a bunch of buildings in a metropolis. But, I don't really see that happening, granted didn't see that happening with Argentine ants either or Solenopsis invicta adapting so fast.

 

 

I think megacephala are clearly more equipped to hunt and fight compared to argentines. I doubt they have much of a chance against invicta in combat, but I do think they could outcompete invicta when it comes to resources due to their massive satellite nests and foraging trails that invicta don't really have. There's some places I think where pheidole megacephala and invicta overlap in large numbers like Florida, but I'm not sure which species started off with the population and territory advantage, since that would probably have a big effect.

I don't know much about Argentine ants since I've never been around them before, but what's interesting is the native habitats of argentines and s. invicta overlap a lot in South America. They don't come from rainy climates, more like marshy with lots of rivers and streams. But in terms of temperature they also regularly go into the 30s during winter so its not that surprising that they can survive in colder climates here, especially invicta since they build their mounds to maximize heat from the sun. But honestly I don't think either will ever adapt to below-freezing climates without learning to hibernate. (Or living indoors as you said). 

[Vendayn]

 

 

 

The top invasive ant to me is the ant that can outcompete another invasive ant that has already been dominating (and thriving) for decades (or even 100s of years) in an area. And at least, here, that is Argentine ants quickly being outpaced by Pheidole megacephala, despite the Argentine ants being here for decades (at least) and the Pheidole megacephala being here only a very short 5 years. Though I think the worst invasive ant is gonna depend on the climate and habitat. Mostly, I think Argentine ants are the most widespread ones though, but they've also been spread around the world the longest, so they are only so bad because how long they've spread. Otherwise, most invasive ants can outcompete Argentine ants (of course, Argentine ants win sometimes, so its not like they always lose against another invasive ant, just generally other invasive ants are better than them. Better meaning, they are better at being invasive and outcompeting them).

 

I have a journal of the pheidole megacephala expansion, but this sums up my last post with my predictions I have of them in the next two years.

 

They were introduced roughly 5 years ago when the apartments brought in plants/irrigation for their new expansion. I killed a bunch of colonies. Other areas the argentine ants beat them (mostly what happened). One area the solenopsis invicta killed them. But they survived in one area by living in the walls of garages. So 5 years ago what started as roughly a couple/few hundred ants and unknown amount of queens has today turned into a colony that has pushed back argentine ants in multiple locations, displacing them within the complex when before the argentine ants had dominated in those areas and are on the brink of spreading to the nature area. Their territory spans out quite a lot, and they actually, considering the overall colony size size, grow faster than argentine ants do and every year their growth is exponential from the previous year.

 

Doing so good, this year they took over a good portion one of the pool areas (which borders the nature area) which is dominated by so many argentine ants that its a literal horde of argentine ants. Pheidole have rarely lost against the argentine ants, mostly beating them time and time again, displacing them where they go. The pheidole have lost big battles of course, but the areas they lost have been fragmented so they can't really reinforce easily. And every area they claim, becomes impossible for the argentine ants to retake. To win the pool area against the near endless hordes of Argentine ants (mostly due to it right being on the edge of the nature reserve which is dominated by Argentine ants), is just huge

 

Next year as I said in my thread, there will be fights on all areas on the border of the nature area. I find the pheidole will expand into the nature area, but probably not far, the bulk of the colony is still a little far from it. Though just as likely with how close they already are to the nature area (just not the bulk of them), they likely will make great gains. The thing is, with how much they've expanded in the pool area, this points to next year of them doing amazing. However, starting in 2022 the argentine ants will lose here from then on, because the rate the pheidole have grown is insane. The argentine ants will at that point be outnumbered, outgrown and the nature area will be all but taken by the pheidole. Even if next year ends up a stalemate, the pheidole will border the nature area in more places and will have grown in 2021, that by 2022 with how fast they grow, will never be beaten by the argentine ants again.

 

Maybe this area/habitat the pheidole love, but to me, that points out that the pheidole megacephala can easily outcompete the argentine ants. The argentine ants have been here for decades, and have lost so many battles against the pheidole megacephala who have only been here 5 years. 

 

However, pheidole megacephala wouldn't do cold and I doubt they'd ever adapt to cold like solenopsis invicta have. Pheidole megacephala can only do the low altitudes in hawaii and aren't even found on the highest spots, and that is a tropical place so I'd assume even a high altitude in hawaii is warmer than most places in the US. Pheidole also desecrate extremely easily (like wow do they dry up fast), they require far more moisture than both argentine ants and solenopsis invicta do...which is moot point anyway (for California) with how much irrigation there is here. 

 

Now...pheidole megacephala easily beat argentine ants.

 

The question becomes is...would pheidole megacephala beat solenopsis invicta just as easily? I find if the solenopsis invicta were already dominate and the habitat was proper for them, that it would be a much more equal battle. A dominated area of Solenopsis invicta grows pretty much as much as a dominated area of Pheidole megacephala does, in terms of numbers. I find at least here, like I said, argentine ants don't nearly match the growth rate of the Pheidole megacephala. There are just lots of argentine ants because they have been here so long.

 

As for how far the pheidole megacephala expanded this year. I'll give an example of the area they are doing best in, they expanded all over but it varies. The amount they've expanded into the pool, playground (and game room) is about 50 feet. So this year they expanded 50 feet from where they previously were. Maybe doesnt sound like much? But they are tiny, and face hordes of argentine ants (which they mostly win against). Though obviously not a straight line and its spread out a lot, but that is the radius of their expansion. Which is more than they expanded last year actually where it was about 20 (in the same general area), wasnt nearly as much. They are still expanding slowly too, almost at the main road, but the bulk of their expansion was earlier in the year.

I've visited countries that have year-round tropical climates before, and in my experience P. megacephala are always extremely dominant in disturbed, human-occupied areas, and very aggressive to other ant species.

But like you said they can never survive in cold or dry climates, and in my opinion means they can't be a worst invasive species in most places.

 

I think the dry climate is a little moot tbh. Before that. I haven't been really outside california, but been to england as the only actual place outside california/us and london has argentine ants living in their city because how warm the city ecosystem is and their ability to also survive indoors. Granted argentine ants can tolerate it a bit cooler than pheidole megacephala can, so I dunno how they'd do there. But pheidole megacephala LOVE the indoors and will equally live in wood and trees as they do in the ground, so in theory the similar can happen with a lot of invasive ants. But its an interesting dynamic that may change (some) invasive ants to survive (and dominate) in cities, even extremely cold ones, when they otherwise wouldn't even survive anywhere in the region at all.

 

The wet climate though I don't really think matters at all for ants that require that. If it did, argentine ants and solenopsis invicta wouldn't even be a thing either...I find its the same in a lot of cities in the US, and I can't speak for outside of it (as far as nations/cities with dry climates go). But..."hmmm, this is a desert...LETS GREEN IT UP!". Like palm springs is in flat out middle of the desert here in california and they made it an artificial oasis that Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants (mostly. S. invicta these days) thrive in. Pretty much most of California both current dominated invasive ants would be a mere memory of a threat if it wasn't for all the irrigation. They'd survive in pockets, but that is all. And seen enough videos of other cities that its pretty much every US city that does this. Even with the water limits from the past, didn't matter when the hollywood actors watered as much as ever and palm springs was as green as ever.

 

When people stop artificially terraforming dry landscapes, the vast majority of areas the currently 2 dominate invasive ants in California (Solenopsis invicta and Argentine ants) will suddenly go away in almost all areas. But I don't see that happening in our lifetimes. The point being, as it stands, I don't really think there is a downside to an ant requiring a wet climate as far as that point goes against Pheidole megacephala. The cold would be more so, and be the big limiting factor. But, I mean, a huge portion of the US is warm enough for them across the south of the US and there is enough irrigation and water landscapes that who knows. They just won't ever reach (and thrive) in the cold states, unless they happen to replicate Argentine ants in london and end up making a network of colonies in a bunch of buildings in a metropolis. But, I don't really see that happening, granted didn't see that happening with Argentine ants either or Solenopsis invicta adapting so fast.

 

 

I think megacephala are clearly more equipped to hunt and fight compared to argentines. I doubt they have much of a chance against invicta in combat, but I do think they could outcompete invicta when it comes to resources due to their massive satellite nests and foraging trails that invicta don't really have. There's some places I think where pheidole megacephala and invicta overlap in large numbers like Florida, but I'm not sure which species started off with the population and territory advantage, since that would probably have a big effect.

I don't know much about Argentine ants since I've never been around them before, but what's interesting is the native habitats of argentines and s. invicta overlap a lot in South America. They don't come from rainy climates, more like marshy with lots of rivers and streams. But in terms of temperature they also regularly go into the 30s during winter so its not that surprising that they can survive in colder climates here, especially invicta since they build their mounds to maximize heat from the sun. But honestly I don't think either will ever adapt to below-freezing climates without learning to hibernate. (Or living indoors as you said). 

 

Yeah I think its safe to say as far as combat and interaction goes, that it be interesting to have more professional studies done by myrmecologists on interactions between Pheidole megacephala and Solenopsis invicta. In a lot of ways, they'd probably be equal but for different reasons. Pheidole megacephala would recruit better than Solenopsis invicta, that be one advantage I know they'd have. But it be interesting to know for sure and just how they react in general. There isn't really much about the two of them together that I've found (really only general obsevations for most part), just lots of info of Pheidole megacephala and Argentine ant interactions.

Edited by Vendayn, November 26 2020 - 9:10 AM.

[NickAnter]

Please, no more mega quotes lol!

[Barristan]

Homo sapiens sapiens.

 

Oh sorry ANT species:

 

All refugees are welcome!