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GAN Project having people illegally sell ants in the US?!?!


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#1 Online AntsExodus - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:11 PM

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I'm sorry about this but someone has to bring it up. I have been a GAN farmer for who knows how long and I have been been seeing this person sell ILLEGAL ants in Georgia. He's selling CAMPONOTUS HERCULEANUS! He claimed he bought them from British Ants and he said nobody cares, so he is just going to sell them to get money. I emailed AntsCanada about this but sadly had no reply and its been a few months. Camponotus herculeanus is not native to my state and is native to the northern parts of the US. I do not understand why this has been happening for more than 2 years and just now said out loud by me! Yes he has been selling these ants for 2 years! He has been also selling Solenopsis invicta a.k.a RIFA and Solenopsis ritcheri a.k.a BIFA.

 

I saw another forum on Formiculture talking about selling RIFA and BIFA and antscanada said they would not allow the selling of them. CLEARLY they did not even try to stop the selling of Solenopsis invicta cause I see people selling it in other states too! Another crazy thing this person is doing that AntsCanada has not seen is he is selling a queen with eggs and no worker.

 

Also I talked the seller and asked him if I can buy a Solenopsis invicta queen with eggs to see if it was real and he said "I do not have any I know a place with fire ant queens everyday so I will catch them just give me a day." He never responded. I know he definitely sells Solenopsis invicta though because his customers have asked me questions about them and asked for help on how to care for the RIFA they bought from him. That means this person was scamming people because he actually does not have the queens yet and when he sells them they could be infertile which is even worse! I am sorry but this is absolutely ridiculous and this just is a pain that people are doing these things and AntsCanada isn't even taking it into consideration. Also half of his list is sold out and he is just not deleting them which is not cool.

 

proof Is So cool
Proof

Edited by AntsExodus, May 17 2020 - 6:00 PM.

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#2 Online VoidElecent - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:16 PM

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Camponotus herculeanus definitely exist in the United States, but you're right, Georgia might be a bit of a stretch. There's a chance that he has misidentified another species of Camponotus. I know the Solenopsis invicta trade has been a problem with the GAN program for a while now, and it is definitely concerning.


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#3 Online AntsExodus - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:21 PM

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Camponotus herculeanus definitely exist in the United States, but you're right, Georgia might be a bit of a stretch. There's a chance that he has misidentified another species of Camponotus. I know the Solenopsis invicta trade has been a problem with the GAN program for a while now, and it is definitely concerning.

Sadly as I stated he bought them from a seller who illegally sells to the US and that seller lives in the UK.



#4 Offline Kaelwizard - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:21 PM

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(deleted)


Edited by Kaelwizard, May 17 2020 - 2:22 PM.

Camponotus novaeboracensis > 1 queen with eggs.

 

Ponera pennsylvanica > 1 queen.


#5 Online VoidElecent - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:27 PM

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Camponotus herculeanus definitely exist in the United States, but you're right, Georgia might be a bit of a stretch. There's a chance that he has misidentified another species of Camponotus. I know the Solenopsis invicta trade has been a problem with the GAN program for a while now, and it is definitely concerning.

Sadly as I stated he bought them from a seller who illegally sells to the US and that seller lives in the UK.

 

 

Ah, didn't see that. That is unfortunate.


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#6 Offline Canadian anter - Posted May 17 2020 - 2:52 PM

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Regarding the Camponotus herculeanus

While I do condemn the selling of illegal ants like this, I feel that the title makes it seem like the GAN project explicitly allowed this individual to sell these ants illegally.

I highly doubt they had the knowledge of this behaviour, and I feel that a better direction would have simply to have reported this to GAN itself.

Edit: Whoops. Looks le that's exactly what he did. I retract my statement

Edited by Canadian anter, May 17 2020 - 5:15 PM.

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#7 Offline AntsDakota - Posted May 17 2020 - 3:08 PM

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Regarding the Camponotus herculeanus

 

While I do condemn the selling of illegal ants like this, I feel that the title makes it seem like the GAN project explicitly allowed this individual to sell these ants illegally. 

 

I highly doubt they had the knowledge of this behaviour, and I feel that a better direction would have simply to have reported this to GAN itself.  

He did:

 

 

 I emailed AntsCanada about this but sadly had no reply and its been a few months. 

 


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV versionCurrently Keeping: Aphaenogaster picea, Aphaenogaster rudis, Camponotus pennsylvanicus, Formica subsericea, Lasius americanus, Lasius aphidicola, Myrmica sp., Pogonomyrmex occidentalis, Ponera pennsylvanica ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________My Journal__________________________________________________________________________________________<p>Attention South Dakotans! Join us on The SoDAK (Society of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

#8 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted May 17 2020 - 3:09 PM

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Why is it that people care enough to sell ants illegally but not enough to put antkeeping supplies in pet stores


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#9 Offline Otter - Posted May 17 2020 - 5:31 PM

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Mikey doesnt make money on GAN. He has literally 0 incentive to remove any of these posts. Camponotus herc is native to the northern US, and I wouldn't be super surprised if populations existed in the mountains of southern states. The truth is that we will likely never find out if they are indeed native or not unless someone wants to go collect specimens there. I'm not even sure the USDA would go after this guy, they have shown themselves to be pretty indifferent to the small time illegal sellers. The only sellers I know of who have been caught are the sellers who are getting multiple shipments a year from mostly asia and europe which contain lots of colonies. They also got a slap on the wrist at best, a letter telling them to stop. Imo the laws around ants are pretty dumb, especially in the US. Permits for ants (at least in the US) are super easy to get unlike some other pets so its not all bad. As to why people sell ants illegally instead of making ant supplies for pet stores, antkeeping isn't super easy and most people would kill their ants over and over again. Kinda like what most newer antkeepers do their first year. Most people also wouldn't know where to start with ants/their care and we would probably see what happens with reptiles rn.
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Keeper of:

 

  • Solenopsis molesta
  • Crematogaster cerasi
  • Lasius americanus
  • Lasius neoniger
  • Lasius brevicornis
  • Monomorium minimum
  • Forelius pruinosus
  • Tetramorium immigrans
  • Brachymyrmex depilis
  • Formica subscericia
  • Camponotus pennsylvanicus
  • Myrmecina americana (queen only)

#10 Offline ANTdrew - Posted May 17 2020 - 5:36 PM

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Seems possible to me that someone just misidentified an ant.
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#11 Online AntsExodus - Posted May 17 2020 - 6:02 PM

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You guys don't understand he has been acquiring the ants illegally from Britain not catching them on his own.



#12 Online GeorgeK - Posted May 17 2020 - 6:52 PM

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Mikey doesnt make money on GAN.

Oh but this is where you are wrong. He makes 10$ per sale of the colony as far as I checked last time I tried applying for GAN. Back then it was customer pays the price you put + 10$ fee to GAN. So, as matter of fact, one of the main reasons stuff like that isn't removed is probably because they're just going to cut off their own profits, and quite honestly 10$ ‚‚platform fee'' is pretty good source of income for them.



#13 Offline zantezaint - Posted May 17 2020 - 7:22 PM

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Your Antscanada dude isn't exactly a saint. What do you expect? We got cops killing pedestrians. How are you going to expect some ant keeper to be a saint? Thousands of imports and exports of illegal insects are happening a day. I'd say give up. Let the world burn because there isn't much of it left to save.


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#14 Offline Serafine - Posted May 17 2020 - 11:46 PM

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Oh but this is where you are wrong. He makes 10$ per sale of the colony as far as I checked last time I tried applying for GAN. Back then it was customer pays the price you put + 10$ fee to GAN. So, as matter of fact, one of the main reasons stuff like that isn't removed is probably because they're just going to cut off their own profits, and quite honestly 10$ ‚‚platform fee'' is pretty good source of income for them.

The GAN fee doesn't exist anymore and the platform has been neglected ever since. They can't even enforce their own rules (like no sales of queens without brood).


Edited by Serafine, May 17 2020 - 11:47 PM.

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#15 Offline AntsDakota - Posted May 18 2020 - 4:41 AM

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Your Antscanada dude isn't exactly a saint.

Wow- you are a master of understatements.  :lol:


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"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV versionCurrently Keeping: Aphaenogaster picea, Aphaenogaster rudis, Camponotus pennsylvanicus, Formica subsericea, Lasius americanus, Lasius aphidicola, Myrmica sp., Pogonomyrmex occidentalis, Ponera pennsylvanica ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________My Journal__________________________________________________________________________________________<p>Attention South Dakotans! Join us on The SoDAK (Society of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

#16 Offline Otter - Posted May 19 2020 - 10:17 PM

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Oh but this is where you are wrong. He makes 10$ per sale of the colony as far as I checked last time I tried applying for GAN. Back then it was customer pays the price you put + 10$ fee to GAN. So, as matter of fact, one of the main reasons stuff like that isn't removed is probably because they're just going to cut off their own profits, and quite honestly 10$ ‚‚platform fee'' is pretty good source of income for them.

I can't remember the last time he actually collected this, the system was probably set up so you pay GAN and then they pay the seller but I have never seen anyone use this. Meeting in person and cash handover is what I have done. 


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Keeper of:

 

  • Solenopsis molesta
  • Crematogaster cerasi
  • Lasius americanus
  • Lasius neoniger
  • Lasius brevicornis
  • Monomorium minimum
  • Forelius pruinosus
  • Tetramorium immigrans
  • Brachymyrmex depilis
  • Formica subscericia
  • Camponotus pennsylvanicus
  • Myrmecina americana (queen only)

#17 Offline Arthroverts - Posted May 22 2020 - 7:55 AM

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I think in general the larger issue has to do with completely exotic brown-boxed starter colonies coming from Asia and Europe. I find it doubtful the USDA/APHIS will be investing time and money in tracking down a seller of C. herculeanus and RIFA/BIFA when there are people importing Messor barbarus, Harpegnathos venator, and others...

 

Thanks,

 

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#18 Online AntsExodus - Posted May 22 2020 - 6:23 PM

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I think in general the larger issue has to do with completely exotic brown-boxed starter colonies coming from Asia and Europe. I find it doubtful the USDA/APHIS will be investing time and money in tracking down a seller of C. herculeanus and RIFA/BIFA when there are people importing Messor barbarus, Harpegnathos venator, and others...

 

Thanks,

 

Arthroverts

I get why they wouldn't be tracking down C. herculeanus but RIFA/BIFA the USDA/APHIDS would be tracking down people who sell or import them then Messor or Harpagnathos cause they are a more invasive and possibly dangerous species.


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