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Shipping queens is unethical.


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53 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Socalfireants - Posted March 31 2017 - 6:37 AM

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Its started to bother me seeing how many people are shipping exotic queens to pretty much inexperienced children for the sake of profit. It shows a lack true lack of patience on the ant keepers part, that they can't just sell or buy locally.



#2 Offline Alabama Anter - Posted March 31 2017 - 6:46 AM

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OH MY GOD! DO YOU WANT TO HAVE A HEATED DEBATE?! The freaking topic you posted on was a YEAR old! Yes, I know I am one of those 'children'! Once again, this @#$% post will not solve ANYTHING except for cluttering the thread AND making the ant community look like hot heads for newcomers! I understand that this is very illegal, and therefore, I do not ship anymore, but I would support team exotics if it was legal. So please, do not post useless topics like this one.


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#3 Offline Loops117 - Posted March 31 2017 - 6:47 AM

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Its started to bother me seeing how many people are shipping exotic queens to pretty much inexperienced children for the sake of profit. It shows a lack true lack of patience on the ant keepers part, that they can't just sell or buy locally.

 

Lol, i couldn't agree any less. The desire for "exotics" has nothing to do with your level of experience, nor do i believe shipping is unethical.

You have to understand, this is a hobby and things get shipped. Some people are completely against the shipment of ants, yet they have geckos, frogs, snakes, insects, birds, etc.. that are either wild caught from another area of the planet, or from a breeder a few states over. They think the collection and sale of an insect that has an incredibly high mortality rate in the wild causes a negative impact. And lastly, how does shipping "exotics" reflect on patience? Idk how patient one can be for an ant species to naturally find their way to a new region.

 

I really can't stand posts like this.


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#4 Online Serafine - Posted March 31 2017 - 7:34 AM

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Not this again. In the US it's illegal anyway, in Europe it's legal and that's pretty much it. Most ants don't give a crap about being sent with the mail, 90% of the time the package is lying around somewhere anyway.

Also where your ant is from has zero corelation with how responsible you are about them.
You can pick a Lasius from your garden and still be a complete idiot and end up killing it.

Oh, and AntsCanada is an utter hypocrite in that regard - cries about exotic ants getting shipped around the world while having a bearded dragon which are prone of getting respiratory infections in Indonesia's humid climate cause they're built for life in deserts...


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#5 Offline XZero38 - Posted March 31 2017 - 7:49 AM

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Can a mod delete this bait thread before things start getting toxic. I can already seeing it heading in that direction


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#6 Offline Jelly - Posted March 31 2017 - 7:53 AM

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Can a mod delete this bait thread before things start getting toxic. I can already seeing it heading in that direction

Its been toxic since the start lol



#7 Offline Socalfireants - Posted March 31 2017 - 8:38 AM

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You are committing ILLEGAL ACTS by shipping ants in the states. Apparently most of you care more about grammar than breaking the law. Apparently you don't understand basic laws and FACTS. This Forum is trying to operate under what i'd assume to be 'Legal'. I doubt Forum mods would like to see ILLEGAL ACTS being committed over their forums. 


Edited by Socalfireants, March 31 2017 - 8:40 AM.


#8 Offline Socalfireants - Posted March 31 2017 - 8:43 AM

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Sorry I hurt your emotional little feelings, but I'm stating what I saw, Which has nothing to do with Alabamaanter. 

What I've seen in my time on ant forums is people shipping exotic INVASIVE ant species to IRRESPONSIBLE and UNEDUCATED people, for the sake of profit. 

 

If none of you are irresponsible, then it doesnt apply to you, so take your hurt feelings elsewhere. 

 

WHAT YOU ARE DOING IS AGAINST THE LAW (if you live in america). 


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#9 Offline Socalfireants - Posted March 31 2017 - 8:48 AM

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Its started to bother me seeing how many people are shipping exotic queens to pretty much inexperienced children for the sake of profit. It shows a lack true lack of patience on the ant keepers part, that they can't just sell or buy locally.

 

Lol, i couldn't agree any less. The desire for "exotics" has nothing to do with your level of experience, nor do i believe shipping is unethical.

You have to understand, this is a hobby and things get shipped. Some people are completely against the shipment of ants, yet they have geckos, frogs, snakes, insects, birds, etc.. that are either wild caught from another area of the planet, or from a breeder a few states over. They think the collection and sale of an insect that has an incredibly high mortality rate in the wild causes a negative impact. And lastly, how does shipping "exotics" reflect on patience? Idk how patient one can be for an ant species to naturally find their way to a new region.

 

I really can't stand posts like this.

 

lol 'Incredibly high mortality rate' A

 

Apparentlly you don't remember solenopsis invicta. The only ants that matter are the ones that can survive. The ones the US government has made ILLEGAL to capture or transport. 

 

Honestly, i think the USDA has more brains than you guys about how important invasive species are. 

 

And by "patience" i mean it shows a LACK of patience on the sellers part to sell to someone in their area. AND it shows a lack of patience on the buyers part to just collect native species like everyone else. 

 

I've seen impatient new antkeepers order exotic difficult species. 

There are also invasive forms of pheidole and other ants


Edited by Socalfireants, March 31 2017 - 8:49 AM.

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#10 Offline Socalfireants - Posted March 31 2017 - 8:55 AM

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This also isn't a "useless topic". I'm honestly tired of coming on here and seeing americans advocate to bring exotic species over here to North america. don't tell me I'm making bad image for new anters when you guys are ADVOCATING ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES. 

 So far the only decent reason I've seen for importing ants is those of you saying "I'm responsible so it shouldn't matter"


Edited by Socalfireants, March 31 2017 - 8:56 AM.

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#11 Offline Loops117 - Posted March 31 2017 - 8:57 AM

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=/ 


Edited by Loops117, March 31 2017 - 9:47 AM.

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#12 Offline T.C. - Posted March 31 2017 - 9:24 AM

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This discussion again? I must say the things I am sick of seeing on this forum is not threads refrencing illegal trade but "pointless" posts like these. There was a day when all posts were once quality here! Not seeing much of that here lately. Anyways, this will be the last post I make in ridiculous threads such as these as I don't want to promote or instigate a thread like this in anyway.

Now, Only a select few people have done the whole illegal ant shipping, and I can assure you they know it's illegal. No matter whether you request them to stop and make posts like this it wil not help at all! As others have said, all your doing is causing issues between members. If you haven't noticed this hobby isn't very large, so naturally I think a person would try to avoid enemies within this community as it is so small. Illegal trade is spoken of every once in a while here, and all topics attempting to promote it are removed or edited. This forum has moderators that are capable of doing so, and as annoying as it may be.... they can take the few seconds to delete or edit a thread if need be. It's simply not something that we can just stop. People do what they want, and if they get caught then good! If not, then it's still not any of your business. If there is a thread that you feel is "illegal", then report it and move on.

With this being said, have a good day, and happy anting. :)
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#13 Online Serafine - Posted March 31 2017 - 10:47 AM

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Maybe building a wall could help against these illegal ants...


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#14 Online Serafine - Posted March 31 2017 - 10:50 AM

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Oh, and don't worry about the costs, we make the ants pay for it :mad2:


Edited by Serafine, March 31 2017 - 10:51 AM.

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#15 Online Serafine - Posted March 31 2017 - 10:59 AM

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Maybe the Russians can help there again - they have some experience in building walls.


Edited by Serafine, March 31 2017 - 11:01 AM.

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#16 Offline Jaaron - Posted March 31 2017 - 11:05 AM

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I get the whole deal about not shipping exotics, but isn't it a bit silly that you can't legally ship between two states where the ant is native to both?



#17 Offline Loops117 - Posted March 31 2017 - 11:30 AM

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I get the whole deal about not shipping exotics, but isn't it a bit silly that you can't legally ship between two states where the ant is native to both?

It seems a bit silly, but there could be some issues that come along with the ants. Different pathogens/parasites.

The reason the state boarders are easier is because nobody is going to be able to tell were you got the queen from, so it's simply no crossing state lines.

Now with the ants, the species you have in your location are resistant to the pathogens found in that area, and they'll carry them with them. Now, when they show up a state away were the native species have no natural defense, it causes an issue and can kill off mass populations. Similar to all the sickness "white man" brought with them when they invaded north america and Hawaii, along with countless other lands. Mass population decline because the natives had no natural defences for the diseases and viruses that were subsequently shared.


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#18 Offline MichiganAnts - Posted March 31 2017 - 11:55 AM

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my stance is its ok to ship so long as its native to your area and the other persons area and its not across state lines.


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#19 Offline T.C. - Posted March 31 2017 - 12:08 PM

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my stance is its ok to ship so long as its native to your area and the other persons area and its not across state lines.


I agree with this actually. Your not "apparently" supposed to ship them even in the mail. But, I can ship other insects. Also, larger businesses are allowed to ship ants for those gel ant farms that I had as a kid.

#20 Online Serafine - Posted March 31 2017 - 12:09 PM

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Everyone can ship ants across US state borders as long as there are no queens in the package. Gamergates might be a loophole though.


Edited by Serafine, March 31 2017 - 12:10 PM.

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