13 replies to this topic

[Reevak]

I was wondering if you can keep ants without ever giving them insects as a protein source. I give all of my colonies superworms as the main protein source but I also give my Tetramorium immigrans crushed cat food pieces and they accept them quite well. It made me wonder if there was anyone who tried not giving their ants insects and only using substitutions as the colony's sources of protein.

[ZllGGY]

I was wondering if you can keep ants without ever giving them insects as a protein source. I give all of my colonies superworms as the main protein source but I also give my Tetramorium immigrans crushed cat food pieces and they accept them quite well. It made me wonder if there was anyone who tried not giving their ants insects and only using substitutions as the colony's sources of protein.

i would say don't try it as insects would be the natural diet of most ants ant if you take that away and start giving them things that can contain chemicals, steroids & such youll probably end up with a dead colony pretty quickly

[Reevak]

i would say don't try it as insects would be the natural diet of most ants ant if you take that away and start giving them things that can contain chemicals, steroids & such youll probably end up with a dead colony pretty quickly

 

I wasn't really planning on trying it, I was just curious as to whether or not anyone else has tried it and if it was possible. I have so many superworms that I don't think I can conceivably run out of them by the end of the year.

[ZllGGY]

 

i would say don't try it as insects would be the natural diet of most ants ant if you take that away and start giving them things that can contain chemicals, steroids & such youll probably end up with a dead colony pretty quickly

 

I wasn't really planning on trying it, I was just curious as to whether or not anyone else has tried it and if it was possible. I have so many superworms that I don't think I can conceivably run out of them by the end of the year.

 

I'm currently starting up my dubia colony and I'm also looking into buying some banana green roaches and getting a colony of that going

[CoolColJ]

I'm sure you could raise my backyard Pheidole species on grass seeds, fruits and crushed nuts exclusively

 

Edited by CoolColJ, March 8 2018 - 4:11 PM.

[Ants4fun]

I mean, most of the ants you are going to find aren't truly insectivorous. They are first and foremost decomposors. (Excluding ants such as many ponerine sp. which actively hunt and eat insects) While insects are a great source of protein, other protein sources would be acceptable. (As shown by many harvester ants, who mainly get their protein source from seeds)


And last resort you could always find a trachymyrmex queen...

Edited by Ants4fun, March 8 2018 - 5:47 PM.

[VoidElecent]

All ants may not be insectivorous, but they will all need a source of protein, regardless.

[Ants4fun]

All ants may not be insectivorous, but they will all need a source of protein, regardless.

Exactly what I said. Other sources of protein would be acceptable.

[Serafine]

That does not mean that every ant species can digest every form of protein though. Also there are a lot of other things (like iron) which are far less accessible in plant food.

[drtrmiller]

If you examine the composition of amino acids which make up proteins, you'll find most are compounds composed of four main elements—carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen.  Carbohydrates (sugars) typically contain all those elements, with the exception of nitrogen.  Bio-available nitrogen, in the form of nitrate salts and other nitrogen compounds, is found in abundance anywhere in the natural world there is life.  For example, it's very common to observe ants feeding on nitrogen-rich resources like bird poop.

Many ants evolved to play a sort of scavenger or specialized role, relying heavily on symbiotic microbes to up-convert nutrients that the ant would otherwise be unable to utilize efficiently.  These microbes immediately pass from adult ants to the next generation of brood via trophallaxis upon the first feeding.  There is a good amount of literature that shows evidence of the ability of these specialized microbes to convert certain ingested components of a nutrient-poor diet into more useful compounds, such as proteins necessary for growth and brood development.

 

This, however, is very likely an inefficient metabolic process, so the growth rate may be much slower when the proper nutrients aren't provided in the regular diet.  It's also important to note that these microbes don't typically possess the ability to convert one element, like carbon, into another element, like iron.  Consequently, micronutrients and minerals (sodium, potassium, copper, etc.) would also be required in the diet, at least in small amounts, for the ants to develop properly.  It is for these reasons that ad libitum amounts of carbohydrates, combined with the occasional insect or other food, is often all that is required to yield a large and healthy colony.

Edited by drtrmiller, March 9 2018 - 4:03 AM.

[Ants4fun]

I wonder if the lack of nutrients in modern foemicariums would limit growth at all. Perhaps the ants ingest small amounts soil in order to get the required nutrients... Some ants such as aphenogaster do ingest soil when using it as a sponge to pick up sugary foods...

[anttics]

my Veromessor pergandei colony. raised an entire generation. of brood exclusively with seeds. these generation was way smaller than the one before 2 to 3mm max. I'm feed them chicken for a whole month. almost all larva are mediums around 4mm, and a few majors 7mm. who should wake up next week. so yeah you can raise them with seeds only. but you won't get large workers. let alone major. super majors not a chance.

Edited by anttics, March 18 2018 - 12:30 PM.

[Martialis]

If you examine the composition of amino acids which make up proteins, you'll find most are compounds composed of four main elements—carbon, hydrogen, oxygen, and nitrogen.  Carbohydrates (sugars) typically contain all those elements, with the exception of nitrogen.  Bio-available nitrogen, in the form of nitrate salts and other nitrogen compounds, is found in abundance anywhere in the natural world there is life.  For example, it's very common to observe ants feeding on nitrogen-rich resources like bird poop.

Many ants evolved to play a sort of scavenger or specialized role, relying heavily on symbiotic microbes to up-convert nutrients that the ant would otherwise be unable to utilize efficiently.  These microbes immediately pass from adult ants to the next generation of brood via trophallaxis upon the first feeding.  There is a good amount of literature that shows evidence of the ability of these specialized microbes to convert certain ingested components of a nutrient-poor diet into more useful compounds, such as proteins necessary for growth and brood development.

 

This, however, is very likely an inefficient metabolic process, so the growth rate may be much slower when the proper nutrients aren't provided in the regular diet.  It's also important to note that these microbes don't typically possess the ability to convert one element, like carbon, into another element, like iron.  Consequently, micronutrients and minerals (sodium, potassium, copper, etc.) would also be required in the diet, at least in small amounts, for the ants to develop properly.  It is for these reasons that ad libitum amounts of carbohydrates, combined with the occasional insect or other food, is often all that is required to yield a large and healthy colony.

I didn't know that there were any at all capable of transmutation.

[ZllGGY]

my Veromessor pergandei colony. raised an entire generation. of brood exclusively with seeds. these generation was way smaller than the one before 2 to 3mm max. I'm feed them chicken for a whole month. almost all larva are mediums around 4mm, and a few majors 7mm. who should wake up next week. so yeah you can raise them with seeds only. but you won't get large workers. let alone major. super majors not a chance.

not all ants will take seeds though, as harvester ants and others as such have evolved the ability to be able to survive on just seeds. if youre ants take seeds though its not a bad thing to give them a varied diet