17 replies to this topic

[AntRealm]

Today I found this colony, which is probably Temnothorax parvulus.
My question is: what exactly are those small white wingless queens? I don’t think they’re alates since they don’t have wings at all.

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Edited by AntRealm, November 28 2025 - 10:36 AM.

[bmb1bee]

Today I found this colony, which is probably Temnothorax parvulus.
My question is: what exactly are those small white wingless queens? I don’t think they’re alates since they don’t have wings at all.

Pale means they're just callows. I'm not well-versed with T. parvulus, but wingless callows could mean that those queens don't engage in nuptial flights. I'm likely wrong though.

[AntRealm]

Today I found this colony, which is probably Temnothorax parvulus.
My question is: what exactly are those small white wingless queens? I don’t think they’re alates since they don’t have wings at all.

Pale means they're just callows. I'm not well-versed with T. parvulus, but wingless callows could mean that those queens don't engage in nuptial flights. I'm likely wrong though.

Yes, I know they’re newly emerged.But I had heard from a few sources that this species cannot be polygynous,
so that made me doubt it.

[bmb1bee]

Yes, I know they’re newly emerged.But I had heard from a few sources that this species cannot be polygynous,

so that made me doubt it.

It could depend on population. First I've seen of wingless Temnothorax queen callows though.

[An-Ant]

I'm not to sure if Temnothorax have them, but they could be intercastes.

[AntRealm]

I managed to get some clearer photos of them.
They have wing attachment points on their thorax, but they don’t have any wings.
I also just noticed those three dots on their heads — does anyone know what they are?

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[Ants_Dakota]

Those three dots are called ocelli; all ants (to my knowledge) have them. They are sometimes called "simple eyes" to differentiate them from the two "compound eyes" we are familiar with. 

Edited by Ants_Dakota, November 29 2025 - 9:25 AM.

[RushmoreAnts]

Those three dots are called ocelli; all ants (to my knowledge) have them. They are sometimes called "simple eyes" to differentiate them from the two "compound eyes" we are familiar with. 

The ocelli's purpose is to distinguish light from darkness. They are the reason ants panic when you check on them, as they are sensitive to light. Their larger eyes can distinguish between objects like our eyes, although they're much more primitive. 

[Stubyvast]

Those are very strange queens, especially with those vestigial wings like that. I assume they weren't just bitten off or anything? 

After doing a bit of research, I agree with An-Ant that those could be intercaste queens, or something similar to it. I found a specific taxa of queens called "brachypterous" queens, where they eclose with very short wings that are often bitten off after emerging, leaving stubs like what we can see in these images. These queens eventually form new colonies through fission, and mating inside the nest, (bmb1bee mentioned this briefly).

The only problem with this is that there are no records from what I've looked into of any temnothorax queens engaging in this behaviour. I know basically next to nothing about this, but this would be my closest guess!

[AntRealm]

It’s been two weeks, and they’re still pale.

[An-Ant]

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?

With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf

It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?

The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white. 

[Stubyvast]

Ok, I guess to figure this out we should probably take a closer look at what exactly the species is. If there's a phenomena like this unique to that species, we can find out quicker and more accurately. AntRealm, could you potentially give us a closer shot of a queen so we can know 100% what species it is? 

 

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?

With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf

It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?

The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white. 

 

An-Ant, I think you're correct, they clearly lack pigment. As far as I found out, most queens do not lack pigment except some cryptics with only subterranean lifestyles for the entire colony. So this is not normal. I also read the first bit of the article you mentioned, and you may be right that this could be some sort of accidental intercaste, just based on their lack of pigment and underdeveloped wings. 

If this is the case, though, and a queen intercaste is produced, wouldn't the colony cull them off if they're not polygynous?

[An-Ant]

Those are very strange queens, especially with those vestigial wings like that. I assume they weren't just bitten off or anything? 

After doing a bit of research, I agree with An-Ant that those could be intercaste queens, or something similar to it. I found a specific taxa of queens called "brachypterous" queens, where they eclose with very short wings that are often bitten off after emerging, leaving stubs like what we can see in these images. These queens eventually form new colonies through fission, and mating inside the nest, (bmb1bee mentioned this briefly).

The only problem with this is that there are no records from what I've looked into of any temnothorax queens engaging in this behaviour. I know basically next to nothing about this, but this would be my closest guess!

Those are not brachypterous queens. If they were, the mesosoma would not be nearly as large, because brachypterous queens not only have none-functional wings, but also lack wing muscles.  

 

Ok, I guess to figure this out we should probably take a closer look at what exactly the species is. If there's a phenomena like this unique to that species, we can find out quicker and more accurately. AntRealm, could you potentially give us a closer shot of a queen so we can know 100% what species it is? 

 

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?

With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf

It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?

The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white. 

 

An-Ant, I think you're correct, they clearly lack pigment. As far as I found out, most queens do not lack pigment except some cryptics with only subterranean lifestyles for the entire colony. So this is not normal. I also read the first bit of the article you mentioned, and you may be right that this could be some sort of accidental intercaste, just based on their lack of pigment and underdeveloped wings. 

If this is the case, though, and a queen intercaste is produced, wouldn't the colony cull them off if they're not polygynous?

I'm not sure, but I don't think a colony would cull intercastes. Additionally, even if the colony treated them as queen alates, the colony may not cull them for a few months. 

[AntRealm]

Ok, I guess to figure this out we should probably take a closer look at what exactly the species is. If there's a phenomena like this unique to that species, we can find out quicker and more accurately. AntRealm, could you potentially give us a closer shot of a queen so we can know 100% what species it is?

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?
With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf
It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?
The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white.

An-Ant, I think you're correct, they clearly lack pigment. As far as I found out, most queens do not lack pigment except some cryptics with only subterranean lifestyles for the entire colony. So this is not normal. I also read the first bit of the article you mentioned, and you may be right that this could be some sort of accidental intercaste, just based on their lack of pigment and underdeveloped wings.
If this is the case, though, and a queen intercaste is produced, wouldn't the colony cull them off if they're not polygynous?

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[Stubyvast]

Thanks AntRealm! Ok can we confirm this ID? Beautiful photos by the way.

[AntRealm]

Thanks AntRealm! Ok can we confirm this ID? Beautiful photos by the way.

Thanks. Actually, I tried to use artificial intelligence to increase the quality so they would be clearer

[An-Ant]

 

Ok, I guess to figure this out we should probably take a closer look at what exactly the species is. If there's a phenomena like this unique to that species, we can find out quicker and more accurately. AntRealm, could you potentially give us a closer shot of a queen so we can know 100% what species it is?

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?
With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf
It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?
The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white.

An-Ant, I think you're correct, they clearly lack pigment. As far as I found out, most queens do not lack pigment except some cryptics with only subterranean lifestyles for the entire colony. So this is not normal. I also read the first bit of the article you mentioned, and you may be right that this could be some sort of accidental intercaste, just based on their lack of pigment and underdeveloped wings.
If this is the case, though, and a queen intercaste is produced, wouldn't the colony cull them off if they're not polygynous?

 

Is it just me, or does only one of the "queens" have ocelli and wing muscles? This probably confirms these are intercastes. 

 

As for IDs, could you provide us with a general location where these were found? 

[AntRealm]

Ok, I guess to figure this out we should probably take a closer look at what exactly the species is. If there's a phenomena like this unique to that species, we can find out quicker and more accurately. AntRealm, could you potentially give us a closer shot of a queen so we can know 100% what species it is?

Very strange. Perhaps they are lacking a pigment?
With some quick research, I found this Antwiki article: https://www.antwiki....etal_IS2013.pdf
It's on Temnothorax nylanderi. Perhaps what's happening with your colony is similar to this?
The thing that surprises me the most is that the "queens" are still pale white.

An-Ant, I think you're correct, they clearly lack pigment. As far as I found out, most queens do not lack pigment except some cryptics with only subterranean lifestyles for the entire colony. So this is not normal. I also read the first bit of the article you mentioned, and you may be right that this could be some sort of accidental intercaste, just based on their lack of pigment and underdeveloped wings.
If this is the case, though, and a queen intercaste is produced, wouldn't the colony cull them off if they're not polygynous?

Is it just me, or does only one of the "queens" have ocelli and wing muscles? This probably confirms these are intercastes.

As for IDs, could you provide us with a general location where these were found?

Iran, south of the Caspian Sea. Found in a forested area with soft soil. They were discovered under a rotting bag, near an Aphaenogaster colony—actually very close to it, near the aggregation chamber.