15 replies to this topic

[shAnt]

Hi, first year ant noob here. I'm having trouble with a camponotus pennsylvanicus queen who had her first worker arrive with her about a month ago when I first got her. The problem began when I accidentally injured the fragile worker while trying to attach the tube into its micro outworld cabin. I know now that one worker wasn't enough but the problem is after that worker died a few days after being hurt, the queen quit eclosing the pupae and lets them get fully dark and hardened and die in their cocoons. She still cares for her eggs and larva and is very very defensive about her brood, but hasn't had a single worker hatch alive since the incident a month ago. I've removed 6 dead workers and I'm afraid she will let all of them die instead of helping them eclose. She still is laying eggs and has a few cocoons left. I think I might have to try to take them out and eclose a few myself, before she lets them all die. Does that ever work? I have tried giving her sugar and protein in case she is running out of her natural claustral storage but she didn't want anything and just got freaked out. Trying to leave her undisturbed in the dark has only resulted in half a dozen dead still cocooned workers.

Edited by shAnt, July 14 2025 - 1:32 PM.

[cooIboyJ]

I would personally get some tweezers or something and try and take the workers out, you might be able to find a helpful video on YouTube. Tho I would wait for a more experienced member to respond. I hope this helps!

[Artisan_Ants]

Hi, first year ant noob here. I'm having trouble with a camponotus pennsylvanicus queen who had her first worker arrive with her about a month ago when I first got her. The problem began when I accidentally injured the fragile worker while trying to attach the tube into its micro outworld cabin. I know now that one worker wasn't enough but the problem is after that worker died a few days after being hurt, the queen quit eclosing the pupae and lets them get fully dark and hardened and die in their cocoons. She still cares for her eggs and larva and is very very defensive about her brood, but hasn't had a single worker hatch alive since the incident a month ago. I've removed 6 dead workers and I'm afraid she will let all of them die instead of helping them eclose. She still is laying eggs and has a few cocoons left. I think I might have to try to take them out and eclose a few myself, before she lets them all die. Does that ever work? I have tried giving her sugar and protein in case she is running out of her natural claustral storage but she didn't want anything and just got freaked out. Trying to leave her undisturbed in the dark has only resulted in half a dozen dead still cocooned workers.

Very odd behavior. Does she have enough water? I mean If she's defending her brood properly, and acting aggressive when you check up on her, I doubt she's dehydrated, but this could be the cause. I once had a Lasius neoniger queen with some pupae and she lacked water and didn't eclose her pupae (of course, different genus but animals, especially ants I find, usually act the same when it comes to dehydration). If nothing else works I think the best you can do is eclose them yourself except this is exceptionally risky as the pupae inside and fragile and one wrong move could end up injuring or killing the developing ant.

 

What about living space and heat? I genuinely don't think heat is the issue especially if pupae are darkening and a worker has already eclosed before that but make sure they are getting at least 77-81 degrees Fahrenheit (least that's what I keep my colony of the same species on. They develop just fine at that temp) and to not exceed about 85 degrees Fahrenheit. Living space is another factor I also doubt especially if she's caring for her brood, but the ants can't do anything about it if their living space is bad, rather the keeper manages it.

[shAnt]

She has a tube still about a 1/4 full of water blocked by a blue sponge instead of cotton. I wondered if it was wet enough and tried to carefully push it back slightly and it's working fine. Her living space now is just a 20mm tube not attached to anything since she has no workers, I keep it dark unless checking. I tried a heat cord but it seemed like it got too hot and might be a fire hazard, so she's in a room that's about 74-82 degrees F most of the time. I was thinking about trying a different kind of heat source but need to find something that won't be dubbed a fire hazard.

[shAnt]

If I do eclose them myself will the baby ants be able to stretch them self out on their own with the cocoon removed or still be stuck frozen in position? Any video I've seen has shown other workers doing the work to open the cocoon and also showed them helping newborn ants stretch their legs and bodies out. In that case I'd have to probably hope getting them out of the cocoon would be enough to get the queen to take care of them, but I wonder will she accept them back when they are vulnerable and she is already defensive?

[Artisan_Ants]

If I do eclose them myself will the baby ants be able to stretch them self out on their own with the cocoon removed or still be stuck frozen in position? Any video I've seen has shown other workers doing the work to open the cocoon and also showed them helping newborn ants stretch their legs and bodies out. In that case I'd have to probably hope getting them out of the cocoon would be enough to get the queen to take care of them, but I wonder will she accept them back when they are vulnerable and she is already defensive?

The workers inside should be moving when you take them out (meaning that little work should be done with the legs, and that the legs don't need to be stretched out). Although from what I've seen, there may be some strands from the cocoon stuck onto the worker because of the interior fluids during its transformation from larvae that the queen/workers remove while eclosing a worker. So, if you can eclose the workers yourself, introduce them to the queen like a minute after and she might clean off those strands herself. But whatever the case, do not touch the worker with your bare hands as that may remove the scent of the queen on the worker, meaning when you introduce the worker to her, she may attack and kill the worker as it's exoskeleton is not fully hardened. In general, do your best to eliminate other scents that may remove the queen's scent. Good luck!

[shAnt]

So I did it as carefully as I could yesterday by carefully getting the queen to run into a second test tube while going into her brood for the cocoons. There were 2 more dead un-eclosed workers disposed of by the drop of food i had tried to offer her (i used a tiny cut piece of tubing as a tray) so i felt like i really had to do it. She actually has a nice size brood of various stages that i got a good look at and tried to open the most tinted 4 of the cocoons out of 6 total, but 2 that i opened were still very young white pupae and i hope they survive. The other 2 were a bit darker, one more than the other, and i am pretty sure i left all 4 alive when i went ahead and put them and their cocoon material (thought maybe she'd smell it and accept them better, and maybe even eat it for protein) back with the rest of the brood before letting Antoinette2 back into her tube, and put them back in the dark when she just walked over them and didn't attack them immediately. I am hoping the 2 tinted ones have woken up and are alive and hardening, but I am almost afraid to look yet today because of how badly she reacts to being checked in on. I hope that the other two that i took out of their cocoons too soon end up okay, and i don't want to trigger her to harm them with her knee jerk reactivity. I didn't give them any food yet because I didn't think they'd be able to process it and I didn't want her to throw their bodies into it like garbage. How long do you think I should wait before I check to see if any of the 4 are alive and ready for some sugar water? Another day or up to a week? If they do wake up and she accepts them, I still don't know if she will feed them or not.

[ANTdrew]

Give it a day or two. Tinkering a lot with colonies rarely helps much. Focus on your successful colonies. Hoping it works out. If so, you will have graduated to CampoMaster level.

[Artisan_Ants]

Yeah. Just be patient and hope for the best (especially if your queen is sensitive).

Edited by Artisan_Ants, July 17 2025 - 9:47 AM.

[shAnt]

I'm excited to report that i have 2 living workers as of today! TBH i never thought it would have a good result, and one of her cocoons looks quite dark so I'm tempted to try it again but I will just hope that her two new workers figure out what to do because i don't want to push my luck. I really do think that if I hadn't at least tried it, she would have been a fail queen for sure since she had lost 8 workers by never eclosing them. I don't really think people should try this unless they have a lose, lose situation already like mine. Only 2 of the 4 I opened survived and that is probably a miracle. Antoinette2 finally has 2 living workers though, I'm stoked!

Edited by shAnt, July 19 2025 - 9:44 AM.

[Artisan_Ants]

I'm excited to report that i have 2 living workers as of today! TBH i never thought it would have a good result, and one of her cocoons looks quite dark so I'm tempted to try it again but I will just hope that her two new workers figure out what to do because i don't want to push my luck. I really do think that if I hadn't at least tried it, she would have been a fail queen for sure since she had lost 8 workers by never eclosing them. I don't really think people should try this unless they have a lose, lose situation already like mine. Only 2 of the 4 I opened survived and that is probably a miracle. Antoinette2 finally has 2 living workers though, I'm stoked!

Congrats! Glad to hear the workers are alive and well. Even I doubted it would work, but nothing's impossible with patience, especially in antkeeping. Now that she has workers, it's highly likely they'll understand what to do as it's instinctual for them when to eclose workers and how to do it. Anyways, congrats once again! Keep us updated!

[ANTdrew]

You have officially earned the coveted title of CampoMaster.

[shAnt]

I'm pretty sure we should wait to see if i can get these queens through their first, and my first, winter diapause and if i can move them into a nest next year. I don't wanna jinx myself yet lol

Right now I just want my second pennsylvanicus queen to turn out better than my first. Never would have thought I'd suddenly care so much about ants, but they're pretty awesome.

[Artisan_Ants]

I'm pretty sure we should wait to see if i can get these queens through their first, and my first, winter diapause and if i can move them into a nest next year. I don't wanna jinx myself yet lol

Right now I just want my second pennsylvanicus queen to turn out better than my first. Never would have thought I'd suddenly care so much about ants, but they're pretty awesome.

Make sure you also feed them properly so they can go strong through diapause. The more workers and brood before hibernation, the better. Make sure they have a good balanced diet of carbs and proteins. Excellent sources of carbs come in the form of sugars which ants (especially this species) love. To name a few: honey, sugar water (1:4 ratio I find works well), jam (organic ingredients are best, but if that not what you use, make sure to check the ingredients. Search up what is good and what is not for them) and reptile jelly (can also be protein jelly. Depends on what you have available). These are personally what use and they work very well, but there are still a bunch of others. Proteins can be supplied through the forms of but not limited to: mealworms, superworms, crickets (best to use store bought ones. Freeze them form preservation, dip in boiling water before use just in case to eliminate any contaminations such as parasites, and feed accordingly), waxworms, silkworms, and dubia roaches (personal favorite to feed). These are foods that I use, but feel free to change it accordingly to your preferences. Just make sure whatever you feed is safe for your ants.

[shAnt]

I've been feeding them a few different sugar water mixes, including sunburst ant nectar and some New Zealand honey, as well as Zoo Med Creatures jelly cups and Komodo jelly pots and their favorite seem to be the Snout and Shell black honey beetle jelly pots.

For proteins, i started with mealworms and dubia roaches, but have only been pre-killing them so I guess i should start freezing and boiling them first... i only recently learned about issues like mites when unknowingly a container of fruit flies was apparently contaminated with anti-grain mite stuff that led to me losing a bunch of harvesters overnight, luckily i didn't interact or give them to my fledgling colonies and to be safe i have only been feeding those fruit flies to my betta now, since honestly the problem that caused my harvester die off was more of a guess that it might be a pesticide than a fact. Either way i'm a lot more paranoid about what I touch when handling any of their food now. I haven't gotten any crickets yet because i still have a ton of roaches and mealworms and I've been paranoid about picking up anything with parasitic mites.

If i just froze, boiled, and refroze all the feeder bugs in bulk would they last a few months and will the ants usually eat them? That would be more efficient, I've just been fresh-killing them and splitting them between my two founders, even though I'm not sure that the pennsylvanicus actually eats any of the stuff I give her at all, even with the 3 nanitics she has now it doesn't look like they are eating anything. The brood seems to be shrinking a bit though since i eclosed the few workers, and now I'm wondering if she is still feeding them or they are eating her eggs...

My c novaeboracensis colony seems to eat only about a third of what i give them, but they keep growing well unlike the c pennsylvanicus. The 20 or so harvesters i have left are pigs that eat pretty much every bit of everything even though they have no need for protein without a queen. They usually only get protein when i'm making sure something new won't kill my camponotus queens.

[ANTdrew]

Parasitic mites aren’t really an issue with commercially raised feeders. It’s the loathsome trash mites you need to worry about.