19 replies to this topic

[TheGamblingAnt]

Hey Everyone,

 

Nice warm day here in WI after a rain overnight and this morning. Went out looking under rocks/logs and came across this queen under a small rock. Looked to be a very new colony only saw 6 workers or so and the queen was right on the surface underneath the small rock. I was able to quickly grab the queen but the few works i saw scattered and wasn't able to get any. Wondering if that's ok to start her in a test tube setup or if you can only do that with newly mated queens? She is all black, about 10 maybe 11mm in length. I found her today 4/23/25 and the rock was located in the woods in my backyard. 

 

Thank you for the help!

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[Stubyvast]

Looks like a Camponotus. (Ah okay according to Bmb1bee it's formica. Nvmd) I would say modoc from eyeballing it, but I'm not sure, as you live in Wisconsin. Someone else is probably an expert on here, so I'll leave it to them to ID this queen!

Hmm I would suggest that if possible, try to find workers or at least brood from her OG colony, as the queen will be much better off with them. Since her post-nuptial flight food stores are probably gone at this stage, you should probably also give her some protein and sugar-water just in case, and then yeah just do what you'd normally do for a dealate queen. 

There is also the possibility of introducing adopted workers into this colony. I'm not sure if it can be done, but I attempted it with Manica invidia last year and the queen + worker accepted each other quite quickly. However, this may not be the case with Camponotus, so I would get a second opinion here.

Anyways, Camponotus are super fun to raise! 

Good luck!

Edited by Stubyvast, April 24 2025 - 4:26 PM.

[bmb1bee]

Definitely not Camponotus. This seems to be a Formica species, likely from the fusca-group. They're a pretty active species and are easy to keep. However, I'm not sure if she can still found after losing her workers like that. If you can come back to catch those workers, that'd be pretty beneficial. They grow especially fast when heated.

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Definitely not Camponotus. This seems to be a Formica species, likely from the fusca-group. They're a pretty active species and are easy to keep. However, I'm not sure if she can still found after losing her workers like that. If you can come back to catch those workers, that'd be pretty beneficial. They grow especially fast when heated.

Formica queens are able to recover from giant losses like, almost half the colony dies. They are able to do that because they are a target for slave raiders but I am pretty sure that if she looses all of her workers, I don’t think she can recover…

[TheGamblingAnt]

I will go back out today and see if I can find any workers. There is a ton of leaves in the woods in my backyard and the 5 or 6 workers I did see under the rock were gone running underneath all the leaves and couldn't find any by the time I caught the queen. Was focused on catching her first and by that time everything else was gone. I didn't see any brood or anything and didn't see any signs of holes under the rock so really not sure where the nest is. But I will go looking this afternoon!

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

I will go back out today and see if I can find any workers. There is a ton of leaves in the woods in my backyard and the 5 or 6 workers I did see under the rock were gone running underneath all the leaves and couldn't find any by the time I caught the queen. Was focused on catching her first and by that time everything else was gone. I didn't see any brood or anything and didn't see any signs of holes under the rock so really not sure where the nest is. But I will go looking this afternoon!

Formica won’t lay eggs for a while, the temperature has to be nice and steady to trigger them to lay eggs and they don’t hibernate with brood.

[TheGamblingAnt]

Makes sense why I was unable to see any brood. We are just starting to warm up here in WI.. I'm assuming this was probably a new queen from last summer who just started this little tiny colony last year. I did just go out there where I found her yesterday, didn't see any holes or tunnels of any sort showing any ant activity. However I did do a little digging and was able to snatch 2 workers. Id assume they had to have been her workers. Think that's enough or should I keep looking later?

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Makes sense why I was unable to see any brood. We are just starting to warm up here in WI.. I'm assuming this was probably a new queen from last summer who just started this little tiny colony last year. I did just go out there where I found her yesterday, didn't see any holes or tunnels of any sort showing any ant activity. However I did do a little digging and was able to snatch 2 workers. Id assume they had to have been her workers. Think that's enough or should I keep looking later?

Maybe try to introduce her to them, if they are her workers, they should keep her going until around may, when you can snatch some brood from other Formica colonies and give it to the queen so she can recover her numbers, from there she should start to lay a lot.

 

Edit: I forgot to say I did that with my current Formica colony to speed up their founding process. You can give Formica larva and I have seen them accept the larva from other colonies, but they will choose some larva to terminate.

Edited by OwlThatLikesAnts, April 24 2025 - 6:50 AM.

[TheGamblingAnt]

Ok thank you so much! I will try that! I'm just now learning all of this stuff, my first year trying to keep ants. So I really appreciate any help and guidance from you guys!

[Artisan_Ants]

Just thought I might throw it out, but this queen is most likely F. subsericea (Formica subsericea). I remember catching a queen that looks exactly the same as this one in late August under a rock with brood (eggs) making me think that her main goal until I caught her was to overwinter while her brood develops, stop (because of the cold) and then resume from there in the spring when temps are hotter and resources are more abundant. Many other species like Crematogaster (cerasi specifically) also do this. Besides appearance, the recurring thing as that both were found under rocks meaning that both species prefer heat.

[TheGamblingAnt]

That was my guess as well! Pretty sure I've got tons of those in my backyard so it'd make perfect sense. I went out after work and dug a pretty sizeable hole carefully and was able to find a total of 17 workers that I'm assuming we're all from the same colony. I've got them all together right now in a small jar and don't be seeming to have any problems. I'm thinking tonight I'll try to introduce them to the queen and see how it goes. As always, appreciate the help everyone!

[OwlThatLikesAnts]

Just thought I might throw it out, but this queen is most likely F. subsericea (Formica subsericea). I remember catching a queen that looks exactly the same as this one in late August under a rock with brood (eggs) making me think that her main goal until I caught her was to overwinter while her brood develops, stop (because of the cold) and then resume from there in the spring when temps are hotter and resources are more abundant. Many other species like Crematogaster (cerasi specifically) also do this. Besides appearance, the recurring thing as that both were found under rocks meaning that both species prefer heat.

It's really rare for them to do that, I only had that happen once, the colony forced the larva to pupate and ate some larva that did not. Just saying, Formica brood develops freakishly fast under heat, especially the nanitics.

[Artisan_Ants]

That was my guess as well! Pretty sure I've got tons of those in my backyard so it'd make perfect sense. I went out after work and dug a pretty sizeable hole carefully and was able to find a total of 17 workers that I'm assuming we're all from the same colony. I've got them all together right now in a small jar and don't be seeming to have any problems. I'm thinking tonight I'll try to introduce them to the queen and see how it goes. As always, appreciate the help everyone!

Nice find! Although did you dig from the same place? Keep in mind that ants from other colonies will act aggressively to queens of different colonies, so you could kill your queen or at least there’s a risk. If you dug it from the same place as where you originally found the queen then it should be fine. Otherwise try this (this is a introduction that some keepers do for parasitic Lasius, but it should work for other ant species too I assume): crush up a worker (unfortunately) and place it with the queen. The scent of the worker should eventually get onto the queen in a couple days. Then introduce the new workers who have the same scent as the crushed up worker which is now on the queen and it may just work.

[Artisan_Ants]

Just thought I might throw it out, but this queen is most likely F. subsericea (Formica subsericea). I remember catching a queen that looks exactly the same as this one in late August under a rock with brood (eggs) making me think that her main goal until I caught her was to overwinter while her brood develops, stop (because of the cold) and then resume from there in the spring when temps are hotter and resources are more abundant. Many other species like Crematogaster (cerasi specifically) also do this. Besides appearance, the recurring thing as that both were found under rocks meaning that both species prefer heat.

It's really rare for them to do that, I only had that happen once, the colony forced the larva to pupate and ate some larva that did not. Just saying, Formica brood develops freakishly fast under heat, especially the nanitics.

I mean it does makes some sense now that I look back at it. I found the queen in August, and hibernation is still a while from then so she’d probably have workers by then and then overwinter with her workers deep underground. I personally kept F. palledifulva as my only true experience so I’m not the best with Formica but I still know things about them. But yeah, heat for this genus changes everything!

[TheGamblingAnt]

Yep! Dug them up in the same exact place. I'm very confident these are her workers. I dug a hole about 1 foot deep with a 3 foot diameter or so and these were the only ants I spotted. And most of them were all directly under the rock I found the queen. I just kept digging around to see if I'd see anything else but saw nothing

[Stubyvast]

...ah it's to my unending shame I somehow thought this was Camponotus. Forgive me 

[TheGamblingAnt]

All good! I combined the workers with the queen tonight. At first the queen seemed very panicked. But after she calmed down everything went well. I didn't see any fighting or anything, just frantically running around. She ran out of the test tube into the tiny out world that I have connected. After about 10 minutes in the small out world, a worker pulled the queen into the test tube. Hope this works!

[Ants_Dakota]

All good! I combined the workers with the queen tonight. At first the queen seemed very panicked. But after she calmed down everything went well. I didn't see any fighting or anything, just frantically running around. She ran out of the test tube into the tiny out world that I have connected. After about 10 minutes in the small out world, a worker pulled the queen into the test tube. Hope this works!

Yup, workers in the Formica genus often pull confused queens around when a nest break in happens. That is an obvious sign that they are from the same colony. While I don't condone the capture of wild colonies, I think you caught a colony still with a small footprint on your local area and have handled the situation with the utmost maturity and care. You can find out more about what to expect from the Formica genus in my Formica Journal and perhaps browse Antmaps to go down the list of species of Formica native to your state to compare images of your colony with those online. Well done, and good luck!

Edited by Ants_Dakota, April 24 2025 - 7:16 PM.

[TheGamblingAnt]

That queen I caught a couple weeks ago laid her first eggs sometimes within the last couple of days! Super exciting. Although, I've noticed this orangish brownish color forming on the cotton ball with the side of the water. Is this cause for concern?
Picture of cotton ball

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Edited by TheGamblingAnt, May 2 2025 - 7:08 PM.

[ANTdrew]

No need to worry yet about the discoloration.