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#1 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 7 2015 - 1:16 PM

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i am a junior in high school and want to eventually, get my masters degree, move out west and pursue myrmecology / eusocial biology, not just as a hobby, but a career. although the odds are not in my favor and i know that i might be taking a huge risk, i want a job that i can enjoy. something that gives me a reason to wake up in the morning. before i embark on my attempt to reach this goal, i must ask the following questions:

 

1) how many years will it take for me to earn my masters? people have told me six, but i am not sure.

2) what jobs can i do as a person with a masters in biology? (i am considering being a field researcher or a curator / species expert)

3) if i decide to move out west (where ant diversity is far greater) where should i go in search of work?

4) who can i talk to about hiring / what are several good research stations i may consider working at

5) what should i expect for pay???


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#2 Offline Billy - Posted September 7 2015 - 2:08 PM

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I don't know about the American system, but in the UK, it takes four years to get a master's degree (MSc), or you can get a BSc (bachelor's degree) in three years and top it up to an MSc in one year. I think degrees are shorter and more intensive over here though, because I've heard it takes you guys four years just to get a bachelor's. 


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#3 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 7 2015 - 4:37 PM

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yeah, it does :(



#4 Offline Gregory2455 - Posted September 7 2015 - 5:22 PM

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Well, our hopes for the future are identical... ;) Correct me if I am wrong but I think it takes 8 years to get a masters.


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#5 Offline john.harrold - Posted September 7 2015 - 5:51 PM

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When you all say masters, do you mean PhD?

#6 Offline Billy - Posted September 7 2015 - 6:02 PM

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When you all say masters, do you mean PhD?

No, I mean a master's degree, e.g. MSc, or MEng. I don't know about anyone else. The way it is here in the UK, a master's is just an extra year of university taught education, but a PhD is a research degree.



#7 Offline john.harrold - Posted September 7 2015 - 6:31 PM

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In the U.S. at least for my field (chemical engineering) it's a year for a non thesis masters and two years for a thesis masters. I asked because some of the numbers being quoted sounded more like a PhD.
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#8 Offline Miles - Posted September 7 2015 - 7:11 PM

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3) if i decide to move out west (where ant diversity is far greater) where should i go in search of work?

 

Unless you're headed to the Southwest, specifically Arizona, California, or Texas, you'll find that diversity is much higher in the eastern United States than say here in the Northwest, where I live.


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#9 Offline BrittonLS - Posted September 7 2015 - 8:12 PM

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Four years for Bachelor's and two more for Master's is typical. Sometimes you can get a head start on your Masters based on what's available at the school you go to. You could probably do it faster especially if you take summer courses and I don't know why it would take any longer unless you just ran into some trouble with the classes. 

 

Your best bets will probably be either University research or working for Pest control or something similar and more than likely the government. I couldn't find any trustworthy sources for salary, but I remember seeing that it wasn't necessarily glamorous. But the Occupational Outlook Handbook lists "Zoologists and Wildlife Biologists" with a median salary of $57,700 a year. Entry level might be around $26,000 with a bachelor's. 

 

Aere's a good article on entomology from the Houston Chronicle: http://work.chron.co...cale-16249.html

 

And whoa! Work on getting accepted to Texas A&M. I might need to reconsider myrmecology after all now hahaha.


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#10 Offline gcsnelling - Posted September 8 2015 - 4:15 AM

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I would not even consider pest control as an option. The larger companies already are well stocked with identification folks and the small companies really couldn't care less. You could hire in as a pest technician but that is monkey work and does not require any sort of entomological back round or degree.


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#11 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 8 2015 - 6:11 AM

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thanks for all the help guys :) if you have anything else to add, please add on. it's greatly appreciated.



#12 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 8 2015 - 12:53 PM

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i will probably stay away from pest control and would prefer being a field researcher :)



#13 Offline NightsWebs - Posted September 8 2015 - 1:01 PM

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You can also check the U of A Entomology department and get the answers directly from the school.  (University of Arizona) Located in Tucson Az as opposed to ASU located in Tempe/Pheonix Arizona. 


I don't think ASU offers Entomology.


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#14 Offline JakobS - Posted September 9 2015 - 7:00 AM

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You can also check the U of A Entomology department and get the answers directly from the school.  (University of Arizona) Located in Tucson Az as opposed to ASU located in Tempe/Pheonix Arizona. 


I don't think ASU offers Entomology.

ASU has a well established social insect research group co-founded by Bert Hölldobler no less, who is still a research professor there.  Undergraduates are able to do research with them, and they have an accelerated masters that can be completed in 5 years. Definitely a program to put on your list.

 

On average, a BS and MS will take six years, but a lot of programs are creating accelerated masters, and if you don't want to do a thesis  it can be shorter. If you want to be a field researcher, or curator/expert a thesis is highly recommended and makes you more competitive for these positions.  


Edited by JakobS, September 9 2015 - 11:50 AM.


#15 Offline Myrmicinae - Posted September 11 2015 - 8:21 AM

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If at all possible, I would work on pursuing a PhD as well.  This will give you much more flexibility (e.g., you can choose your own research) and you will have many more options for myrmecology careers.  In general, salary will be higher as well.  

 

That said, entomology jobs seem to be in short supply these days, regardless of your education level.  Looking at it optimistically, I hope this means that there are simply more people interested in the field, but I'm not sure that that is the case.


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#16 Offline john.harrold - Posted September 11 2015 - 12:34 PM

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If at all possible, I would work on pursuing a PhD as well.  This will give you much more flexibility (e.g., you can choose your own research) and you will have many more options for myrmecology careers.  In general, salary will be higher as well.  

 

That said, entomology jobs seem to be in short supply these days, regardless of your education level.  Looking at it optimistically, I hope this means that there are simply more people interested in the field, but I'm not sure that that is the case.

 

I was thinking about making a similar suggestion of considering a PhD. You should know that getting a PhD in the US isn't normally a financially rewarding pursuit. It's true that you'd make more starting with a PhD than you might starting with a BS, but if you look at the 5+ years of income and advancement you loose while pursuing the PhD, it can take many years with the higher degree to catch up to where you would have been financially with the BS. Not to detract from the key benefits that Myrmicinae brings up, but it's good to know going into it that if your idea is to maximize your earnings over a period of time, this is most likely not the way to go. 
 
Given all of that, if you more interested in a career that is interesting where you will have more freedom, then a PhD is a very good option. Some general thoughts on going down this route: 
 
You have an idea of what you'd like to study, but truthfully you don't really have the background to make a good decision right now. When I was your age (man that makes me feel old), I really liked chemistry and math. So I thought: I should be a chemical engineer. I turns out I like math a lot more than chemistry. That's OK for me since I was able to move into a more mathematical area in chemical engineering. I did this by working as an undergraduate researcher in a few labs doing different work to see what appealed to me. So one thing to consider: Go to a school with a descent program in what you want to study, and talk to the faculty about the potential to do research in their labs. This will be grunt work but if this is your calling some of that grunt work will be a joy to do. Use this to figure out what you'd like to specialize in for graduate school.
 
Focusing on a single field may sound fun and I'm sure there are some that will extol the virtue of being a pure scientist or some other silliness. Academic advisors will tell you: Just become a faculty member somewhere. But there are X people every year graduating with the goal of being a PI in a lab some where and there are Y positions available and generally peaking Y is much less than X. So I'd also suggest that being a good scientist is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You need to balance that out with being marketable. I did this by taking the general tools I learned as a chemical engineer to a different field where the applications weren't always evident but useful. How to do this in entomology/myrmecology will be a challenge for you. But thinking about how your education will enable you to get a job is something you should do sooner rather than later.
 
Scientists working in their individual fields speak their own language. If you go to a conference for any specialized field and just listen to people, the conversations will sound like English, but the word combinations will sound like gibberish. I work with biologists, clinicians, people in business, etc. It doesn't matter if I generate the coolest results in the world. If I cannot communicate those results to people, they might as well not exist at all. So this brings me to a third point: Learn to communicate at a level that most people can understand. 
 
These things will probably be useful to consider regardless of the degree you end up pursuing. 

 

 
Good Luck.

Edited by john.harrold, September 11 2015 - 2:47 PM.

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#17 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 11 2015 - 4:50 PM

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If at all possible, I would work on pursuing a PhD as well.  This will give you much more flexibility (e.g., you can choose your own research) and you will have many more options for myrmecology careers.  In general, salary will be higher as well.  

 

That said, entomology jobs seem to be in short supply these days, regardless of your education level.  Looking at it optimistically, I hope this means that there are simply more people interested in the field, but I'm not sure that that is the case.

i will probably not be able to get my phd. i have talked to many biologists and they have sad that i should go for my masters instead. there are also other reasons (don't have enough money / learning disability)



#18 Offline ctantkeeper - Posted September 11 2015 - 5:00 PM

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If at all possible, I would work on pursuing a PhD as well.  This will give you much more flexibility (e.g., you can choose your own research) and you will have many more options for myrmecology careers.  In general, salary will be higher as well.  

 

That said, entomology jobs seem to be in short supply these days, regardless of your education level.  Looking at it optimistically, I hope this means that there are simply more people interested in the field, but I'm not sure that that is the case.

 

I was thinking about making a similar suggestion of considering a PhD. You should know that getting a PhD in the US isn't normally a financially rewarding pursuit. It's true that you'd make more starting with a PhD than you might starting with a BS, but if you look at the 5+ years of income and advancement you loose while pursuing the PhD, it can take many years with the higher degree to catch up to where you would have been financially with the BS. Not to detract from the key benefits that Myrmicinae brings up, but it's good to know going into it that if your idea is to maximize your earnings over a period of time, this is most likely not the way to go. 
 
Given all of that, if you more interested in a career that is interesting where you will have more freedom, then a PhD is a very good option. Some general thoughts on going down this route: 
 
You have an idea of what you'd like to study, but truthfully you don't really have the background to make a good decision right now. When I was your age (man that makes me feel old), I really liked chemistry and math. So I thought: I should be a chemical engineer. I turns out I like math a lot more than chemistry. That's OK for me since I was able to move into a more mathematical area in chemical engineering. I did this by working as an undergraduate researcher in a few labs doing different work to see what appealed to me. So one thing to consider: Go to a school with a descent program in what you want to study, and talk to the faculty about the potential to do research in their labs. This will be grunt work but if this is your calling some of that grunt work will be a joy to do. Use this to figure out what you'd like to specialize in for graduate school.
 
Focusing on a single field may sound fun and I'm sure there are some that will extol the virtue of being a pure scientist or some other silliness. Academic advisors will tell you: Just become a faculty member somewhere. But there are X people every year graduating with the goal of being a PI in a lab some where and there are Y positions available and generally peaking Y is much less than X. So I'd also suggest that being a good scientist is a necessary but not sufficient condition. You need to balance that out with being marketable. I did this by taking the general tools I learned as a chemical engineer to a different field where the applications weren't always evident but useful. How to do this in entomology/myrmecology will be a challenge for you. But thinking about how your education will enable you to get a job is something you should do sooner rather than later.
 
Scientists working in their individual fields speak their own language. If you go to a conference for any specialized field and just listen to people, the conversations will sound like English, but the word combinations will sound like gibberish. I work with biologists, clinicians, people in business, etc. It doesn't matter if I generate the coolest results in the world. If I cannot communicate those results to people, they might as well not exist at all. So this brings me to a third point: Learn to communicate at a level that most people can understand. 
 
These things will probably be useful to consider regardless of the degree you end up pursuing. 

 

 
Good Luck.

 

thanks so much for replying to this. although i will probably stick to my masters, i will try to use the ideas that you have provided :) they will probably go a long way in helping me reach my goals. people tell me that i should teach because of my ability to break down myrmecology into an easy to understand, enjoyable conversation. however, i could never teach for a living, if i become a biology teacher i would have to talk about ALL of the facets of biology. i wouldn't be able to put much thought or ability into all of them because of how distant they were from my true intrests. i will find my niche someday.... i wish i knew whether or not my dreams are impossible to reach, whether i will succeed or will this endever leave me working at a job i hate with people i hate :( . only time will tell. what do you think of my chances (my grades are mainly b's, c's and some a's)



#19 Offline Roachant - Posted September 12 2015 - 8:53 AM

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Its good to have a goal in mind but I would recommend also keeping an open mind about other fields. You will need to even if you intend to do a specialization.
But first focus on the immediate task of getting your grades up and getting out of high school with a strong standing in math and the sciences. Focus on that right now and do not worry about the specialties. Other options could open up that will make things easier for you, options you may not even be aware of at the moment. Would you consider doing school in another country? Here in Montreal we have one of the best schools for biological science, McGill university. Students come from all around the world to study here as tuitions are a fraction of what they would be in other countries. You would need to get your grades up to get in, but it's just an example of another alternative you may have not considered.
you know, you are lucky to know what you want to do in life, many people your age still struggle to figure out what it is they want to do.
Good luck!
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