17 replies to this topic

[AverageGuy]

Looking to id these queens and the colony if possible, thanks.
1. Collected in NE Ohio, Geauga county
2. Collected on 04/01, around 1630 hrs, temperature ~45°.
3. They were under the rocks of a fire pit that's located in the wooded area behind my home, adjacent to a creek.
4. Unsure of the size
5. The workers are orangish/yellow, the queens are brownish, with orange hues
7. They were tending aphids (some on the underside of rocks, some on tree roots when I found them
8. The fire pit is circular (~4' across) and probably has around ten fist to double fist size rocks marking it's circumference. There were workers and aphids under about half of them. And three queens I could see.

I'm guessing lasius brevicornis due to the aphid tending and the (possible) polygyny.
I say possible as I'm not 100% sure these queens belong to this colony. The queens didn't seem to be tended by any workers, the workers killed one of the queens in the few minutes I had them in the collection vial, and the queens seemed to be too shallow in the nest, they were directly exposed as I lifted the rocks but there were holes the workers were taking that went deeper.
I still have two of the queens, one that is in with the colony and, so far, has not been killed, and one I have separated in a founding setup.

Thank everybody again for the help.

[Mettcollsuss]

The queen is Lasius aphidicola, but the workers do look like Cautolasius, but probably L. nearcticus rather than brevicornis, given the habitat.

[AverageGuy]

The queen is Lasius aphidicola, but the workers do look like Cautolasius, but probably L. nearcticus rather than brevicornis, given the habitat.

Thank you!
Subsequent googling has me thinking that dealing with aphidicola and whatever they have planned for this colony may be above my expertise range. Looks like I'll be flipping rocks back over tomorrow and taking these girls back to their fire pit.

Edited by AverageGuy, April 1 2024 - 6:18 PM.

[futurebird]

Since you have both the queen and hosts the hard part of care for this social parasite is over. The host ants should care for her and she will lay her own eggs... and they will slowly outnumber the hosts. It could be interesting to watch. 

Edited by futurebird, April 1 2024 - 6:33 PM.

[Flu1d]

The queen is Lasius aphidicola, but the workers do look like Cautolasius, but probably L. nearcticus rather than brevicornis, given the habitat.

Thank you!
Subsequent googling has me thinking that dealing with aphidicola and whatever they have planned for this colony may be above my expertise range. Looks like I'll be flipping rocks back over tomorrow and taking these girls back to their fire pit.

Perhaps you could sell or give her away to someone close to you, within your state of course, instead of putting her back? You do you, that's just my personal advice

Also, like Futurebird stated..the hard part is essentially over! She (the queen) already did her part

Edited by Flu1d, April 1 2024 - 7:55 PM.

[AverageGuy]

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.🙂
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

Edited by AverageGuy, April 2 2024 - 5:20 AM.

[The_Gaming-gate]

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.🙂
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Edited by The_Gaming-gate, April 4 2024 - 11:24 PM.

[BDantsalberta]

Keep us posted

[AverageGuy]

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.🙂
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Thank you.

[AverageGuy]

Keep us posted

Everything started off good but I have no clue now.
The queen that I originally thought was accepted ended up having one worker that just wouldn't leave her alone, and kept biting on her. Woke up a few days ago and they were both dead.

The last queen I have I had placed about five workers and some brood in with her in a founding setup.
She ended up killing the workers and leaving the brood scattered about.
I then tried a couple workers who were actively tending brood thinking less aggression, she killed both of those, also.
Her founding setup is now connected to the THA hearth I have the colony in and they have been depositing trash in the chamber she is in but anytime one of the workers touches her she just runs out of the chamber to avoid them and then goes back in when they leave.
Not sure if this is going to work out.
🤷🏽‍♂️

[The_Gaming-gate]

 

 

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Thank you.

 

No problem!

 

Keep us posted

Everything started off good but I have no clue now.
The queen that I originally thought was accepted ended up having one worker that just wouldn't leave her alone, and kept biting on her. Woke up a few days ago and they were both dead.

The last queen I have I had placed about five workers and some brood in with her in a founding setup.
She ended up killing the workers and leaving the brood scattered about.
I then tried a couple workers who were actively tending brood thinking less aggression, she killed both of those, also.
Her founding setup is now connected to the THA hearth I have the colony in and they have been depositing trash in the chamber she is in but anytime one of the workers touches her she just runs out of the chamber to avoid them and then goes back in when they leave.
Not sure if this is going to work out.
‍♂

 

Did you cool them? Try dipping the workers in vinegar to remove their pheromones.

Edited by The_Gaming-gate, April 7 2024 - 2:10 PM.

[AverageGuy]

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Thank you.

No problem!

Keep us posted

Everything started off good but I have no clue now.
The queen that I originally thought was accepted ended up having one worker that just wouldn't leave her alone, and kept biting on her. Woke up a few days ago and they were both dead.

The last queen I have I had placed about five workers and some brood in with her in a founding setup.
She ended up killing the workers and leaving the brood scattered about.
I then tried a couple workers who were actively tending brood thinking less aggression, she killed both of those, also.
Her founding setup is now connected to the THA hearth I have the colony in and they have been depositing trash in the chamber she is in but anytime one of the workers touches her she just runs out of the chamber to avoid them and then goes back in when they leave.
Not sure if this is going to work out.
‍♂

Did you cool them? Try dipping the workers in vinegar to remove their pheromones.

I've been cooling them, yes.
iirc I collected them on the first and since then they've been in an uninsulated sunroom. Temps have been in the 40's during the day and mid 30's at night until today, the 7th.
Right now the queen is in a smaller chamber with all the workers she killed. It's covered but when I peek in there I haven't been able to catch her interacting with them.
Watching her, when they touch her it almost seems as if she doesn't want to actually interact with them.
It's like having a teenager. They live in one of the rooms of your house but unless it's time to eat they have no interest in acknowledging your existence.

[AverageGuy]

I've been searching for more info and could it just be that it's not "Go Time" to infiltrate a colony?
I know folks have spoken against it but I am still considering releasing them where I found them.
We (my son and I) first found the colony last year in the same spot.
They're like our resident ants for that 50 sq ft patch of the woods, if that make sense.

Edited by AverageGuy, April 7 2024 - 3:32 PM.

[BDantsalberta]

 

 

 

 

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Thank you.

No problem!

 

Keep us posted

Everything started off good but I have no clue now.
The queen that I originally thought was accepted ended up having one worker that just wouldn't leave her alone, and kept biting on her. Woke up a few days ago and they were both dead.

The last queen I have I had placed about five workers and some brood in with her in a founding setup.
She ended up killing the workers and leaving the brood scattered about.
I then tried a couple workers who were actively tending brood thinking less aggression, she killed both of those, also.
Her founding setup is now connected to the THA hearth I have the colony in and they have been depositing trash in the chamber she is in but anytime one of the workers touches her she just runs out of the chamber to avoid them and then goes back in when they leave.
Not sure if this is going to work out.
‍♂

Did you cool them? Try dipping the workers in vinegar to remove their pheromones.

I've been cooling them, yes.
iirc I collected them on the first and since then they've been in an uninsulated sunroom. Temps have been in the 40's during the day and mid 30's at night until today, the 7th.
Right now the queen is in a smaller chamber with all the workers she killed. It's covered but when I peek in there I haven't been able to catch her interacting with them.
Watching her, when they touch her it almost seems as if she doesn't want to actually interact with them.
It's like having a teenager. They live in one of the rooms of your house but unless it's time to eat they have no interest in acknowledging your existence.

 

There is one other thing you could try before releasing them that could indicate whether or not the queen show's more interest in the host colony. Try putting all the host workers and brood into a test tube setup, and connect that to a plastic container via tubing that the queen can travel through (try and make it smaller tubing as to simulate the natural environment of lasius colonies, and then put the queen into the plastic container. If she tries to ever enter the nest it is because she does show interest in the colony. If she doesn't show interest in entering the colony, then she wants different hosts probably.

[BDantsalberta]

 

 

 

 

Thank you everybody for the responses.
I'm relatively new to antkeeping so I'm open to all the help/suggestions I can get, no need to worry about offending.
Overnight it looks like the queen that was in with the workers I collected has been "accepted."
She had a few workers just sitting beside her with their antennae on her body, no aggression that I could see so I axed the "flip the rocks back over" plan and switched to "Yay, new colony time!"
This may be stepping outside of the bounds of the subforum but from what I could find I understand that I should be able to introduce the second queen I have, the solo one, to brood workers and she should be able to use them as colony starters, but will she need some of their brood, also?
Again, thank you everyone!

You can just place workers into a test tube, and tape it to a second tube containing the queen. And yes, you should include brood. If you do introduce workers, place them into a fridge or cooler for a while (I think 1 - 3 days is what I’ve seen on the forum.). Keeping them in the cold prevents aggression. Once they are in there long enough you can introduce your workers to the single queen. (Do note if the queen isn’t cooled down she will probably kill one of the workers to get their scent, that is normal and is actually to help her be accepted.)

You can also try to brood boost her normally without workers, but not all parasites can properly open cocoons and if you give her larvae she may not have proper reserves to feed them.

Thank you.

No problem!

 

Keep us posted

Everything started off good but I have no clue now.
The queen that I originally thought was accepted ended up having one worker that just wouldn't leave her alone, and kept biting on her. Woke up a few days ago and they were both dead.

The last queen I have I had placed about five workers and some brood in with her in a founding setup.
She ended up killing the workers and leaving the brood scattered about.
I then tried a couple workers who were actively tending brood thinking less aggression, she killed both of those, also.
Her founding setup is now connected to the THA hearth I have the colony in and they have been depositing trash in the chamber she is in but anytime one of the workers touches her she just runs out of the chamber to avoid them and then goes back in when they leave.
Not sure if this is going to work out.
‍♂

Did you cool them? Try dipping the workers in vinegar to remove their pheromones.

I've been cooling them, yes.
iirc I collected them on the first and since then they've been in an uninsulated sunroom. Temps have been in the 40's during the day and mid 30's at night until today, the 7th.
Right now the queen is in a smaller chamber with all the workers she killed. It's covered but when I peek in there I haven't been able to catch her interacting with them.
Watching her, when they touch her it almost seems as if she doesn't want to actually interact with them.
It's like having a teenager. They live in one of the rooms of your house but unless it's time to eat they have no interest in acknowledging your existence.

 

It could also be because they have no queen for her to kill. I've noticed this before where the parasite queen will actually lose interest simply because there was no host queen provided.

[AverageGuy]

Here is what I currently have everything set up as.
The queen is staying in the far left side chamber.
The colony is in the hearth.
They've started to clog up the tubing with dirt and such and still, when they venture in to the far left side, the queen just freaks out until they leave.
I want to thank everybody but it seems at this point the answer could be "Z: Any of the above."

[AverageGuy]

No clue why the pic is sideways. I assure you, the formicarium is right side up.

[AverageGuy]

Just to close this misadventure out, and so nobody thinks I'm just randomly dumping ants in my yard.
I headed back out to the firepit to release the colony members and the queen and under the first rock I picked up I found this little lady headed back into a hole.
Again, I want to thank everybody for their help.

Attached Images

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Edited by AverageGuy, April 10 2024 - 11:09 AM.