11 replies to this topic

[CatsnAnts]

Location: Jasper, Indiana
Date: July 1st
Time: Around sunrise, not sure when
Method of Capture: Blacklight
Coloration: Head and abdomen are black, while thorax is bright orange
Size: 6 mm (previous size was incorrect, 6 mm is the correct length, sorry)

I will get better pictures of it here when I get time, but here’s a phone photo in the meantime:



I’ve never seen anything like it, maybe it’s from a neighboring region that I don’t recognize?

Edited by CatsnAnts, August 1 2021 - 7:22 AM.

[CatsnAnts]

Okay, I got some better photos now:

 

[NickAnter]

Pheidole dentata? I think so anyway, the color is rather strange.

[CatsnAnts]

Pheidole dentata? I think so anyway, the color is rather strange.

Possibly! I caught six, so hopefully at least one will be able to reach workers. Then I can get a definite ID.

[jplelito]

This looks very much like Pheidole bicarinata to me. Coloration in this species is super variable! Pheidole dentata queens would be bigger and with a much more broad thorax.

[CatsnAnts]

Ok, I have finally gotten around to getting good comparison photos between this unknown Pheidole species and P. bicarinata. From what it seems, the two are not the same species, and I'll try to explain why (although I'm hoping someone can confirm that they are indeed not the same species, which would likely mean they are undescribed):

 

 

 

These next few photos are a comparison between P. bicarinata (left), the Pheidole species in question (middle), and P. tysoni (right):

 

 

 

 

 

The next photo is of the unknown Pheidole species:

 

 

 

 

 

The next few photos are a comparison of P. bicarinata (left), and the unknown Pheidole species (right):

 

 

 

 

 

Here are a few photos of the unknown Pheidole species:

 

 

 

 

 

And finally, the last few photos are of P. bicarinata:

 

 

 

 

 

 

So, from those photos, the main feature that stood out to me was the size of the heads. The unknown Pheidole species has a relatively small head, and a more 'flat' head shape than P. bicarinata. Also, the ocelli on the head of each species are very similar in size, despite the different head sizes, as they appear more 'crammed' on the unknown Pheidole species head. The eyes of P. bicarinata are also have a distinct curve to them, while this unknown species lacks this 'curve'. And even though I am well aware coloration is not supposed to be used to determine a species, from the some odd 40 queens of each species I found this season, each species maintains their unique coloration from the other, no intermediately-colored versions have been found. The unknown species also has a unique gold spot on the part of their abdomen closest to the petiole. I'm hoping for it to be an undescribed species, but this seemed like a good first comparison to make. What are your thoughts?

[NickAnter]

Maybe Ph. davisi? Are you near any pine barrens?

 

Otherwise, id say its probably an unnamed or undescribed sp. Id look on antweb for any unnamed spp.

Edited by NickAnter, July 31 2021 - 10:48 AM.

[CatsnAnts]

Maybe Ph. davisi? Are you near any pine barrens?

 

Otherwise, id say its probably an unnamed or undescribed sp. Id look on antweb for any unnamed spp.

Not near any pine barrens for miles around. From what it seems, Pheidole davisi have a very dark appearance, although I'll have to check just to make sure. I'll be sure to check AntWeb as well, thanks!

 

Ok, well AntWeb wasn't very helpful, and none of the undescribed specimens from my region have been imaged. Hmm.

Edited by CatsnAnts, July 31 2021 - 11:07 AM.

[AlexLebedev]

probally a color morph or a unnamed species

[ANTdrew]

Doesn’t look like davisi at all to me.

[jplelito]

This whole convo is very interesting. I see some other maybe minor but possibly important differences there too - the animal on the left has a more strongly ridged petiole, and possibly subtleties in the head sculpturing too. I see clearly the eye shape difference you mention too. Any chance you can find another and rear it out as a colony? I ask because, almost always to identify a subspecies, species etc one will need a nest series where one can show these differences consistently in reproductives, minors, majors. At the very least you don’t want to only find one weirdo and make assumptions - it could simply be a deformity. But find several… Don’t let even small differences dissuade you - a quick look at the species pages on antwiki for example will remind any of us how similar within a genus many small ant species are. Look also for behavioral differences. Not to say this is definite or to get hopes up but merely observing that even the big guys themselves like EO Wilson clearly speculated on species like bicarinata and dentata being possibly a complex. Of course it makes sense to say also for completeness that lots of species are variable - look at any animal. It may take DNA to figure that out! And that is above my pay grade. . Keep looking!!

[CatsnAnts]

This whole convo is very interesting. I see some other maybe minor but possibly important differences there too - the animal on the left has a more strongly ridged petiole, and possibly subtleties in the head sculpturing too. I see clearly the eye shape difference you mention too. Any chance you can find another and rear it out as a colony? I ask because, almost always to identify a subspecies, species etc one will need a nest series where one can show these differences consistently in reproductives, minors, majors. At the very least you don’t want to only find one weirdo and make assumptions - it could simply be a deformity. But find several… Don’t let even small differences dissuade you - a quick look at the species pages on antwiki for example will remind any of us how similar within a genus many small ant species are. Look also for behavioral differences. Not to say this is definite or to get hopes up but merely observing that even the big guys themselves like EO Wilson clearly speculated on species like bicarinata and dentata being possibly a complex. Of course it makes sense to say also for completeness that lots of species are variable - look at any animal. It may take DNA to figure that out! And that is above my pay grade. . Keep looking!!

Fist of all, thank you for taking the time to write that - muchos appreciados!

I currently have 8 of these unknown queens in my possession, and finally 3 of them laid a small batch of eggs (after almost a month of experimentation)! It seems that this species really likes cooler temperatures (mid to lower 70’s), because as soon as I removed them from the incubator, they laid eggs. All of my other Pheidole, however, are doing fine in the incubator. I now have hope to get to workers, and I have a reliable way to collect more next year if all else fails. Things like this make me excited , thanks again!