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Superorganisms


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#1 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 16 2020 - 4:54 PM

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So i'm a little bit obsessed with superorganisms (e.g. individual organisms that collectively function as a single organism), so I just thought I'd start a thread about them (and, of course, ant colonies fall into the category of superorganism, so it's very relevant).

 

One of the things I like about superorganisms is how they seem to blurr our idea of an individual organism. It seems like we judge something as an individual if all its parts are physically connected (like with tissue). But then you have things like ant colonies. Colonies have all the properties of life that define an individual organism. I for one am just thrilled at how these creatures cooperate to the point of being a single entity.


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#2 Offline Martialis - Posted March 16 2020 - 6:22 PM

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They're definitely interesting. By some definitions, ant workers alone (in some species) aren't alive—they lack the ability to reproduce. 

 

If you're interested in "superorganisms," look into the clonal tree colonies. They're amazing.


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#3 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 16 2020 - 6:50 PM

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The ones with interconnected roots?

 

And yeah, superorganisms are pretty cool. Pyrosomes are the best example I can think of. If you count them as one organism they can get longer than blue whales.


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#4 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 17 2020 - 5:16 AM

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The ones with interconnected roots?

 

And yeah, superorganisms are pretty cool. Pyrosomes are the best example I can think of. If you count them as one organism they can get longer than blue whales.

Tunicates seem to have a pretty good superorganism business going on. The Cnidaria have some cool ones too (e.g. siphonophores, corals, porpitids, sea pens, etc). Siphonophores are just... awesome, in the real sense of that word.



#5 Offline ANTdrew - Posted March 17 2020 - 6:43 AM

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You definitely need to read E.O. Wilson's Superorganism book. It's a masterpiece.


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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#6 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 17 2020 - 12:59 PM

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And let's not forget termites.

 

And bees.

 

And every other eusocial insect.


Edited by TheMicroPlanet, March 17 2020 - 1:00 PM.

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#7 Offline ANTdrew - Posted March 17 2020 - 1:59 PM

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Don’t forget social spiders!
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"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#8 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 17 2020 - 2:23 PM

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Not exactly superorganisms. But I guess they count somewhat, with the exception of certain bees and the spiders. They have the capability to reproduce and survive on their own.



#9 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 17 2020 - 3:17 PM

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Social spiders are kind of.... meh. I mean, from what I understand, if one of their comrades gets eaten by a bird of something, the others just kinda sit there or run away.



#10 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 17 2020 - 3:23 PM

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Social spiders are kind of.... meh. I mean, from what I understand, if one of their comrades gets eaten by a bird of something, the others just kinda sit there or run away.

They just live together and share resources.



#11 Offline AntsDakota - Posted March 17 2020 - 6:20 PM

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Like us.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#12 Offline ANTdrew - Posted March 17 2020 - 6:36 PM

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Some do care for unrelated young, but they’re not superorganisms.
"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25
Keep ordinary ants in extraordinary ways.

#13 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 18 2020 - 8:26 AM

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Some do care for unrelated young, but they’re not superorganisms.

I wonder if they care for the young out of eusociality or so that they have a better chance of surviving with a larger group.



#14 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 18 2020 - 8:45 AM

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Some do care for unrelated young, but they’re not superorganisms.

I wonder if they care for the young out of eusociality or so that they have a better chance of surviving with a larger group.

 

Sort of like schools of fish?



#15 Offline AntsDakota - Posted March 18 2020 - 11:07 AM

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Perhaps ‘superorganisms’ can on survive together, as one, and not as individual parts. Spider and fish can survive alone, but just try keeping a pet worker ant without its colony.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version


#16 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 18 2020 - 2:30 PM

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Perhaps ‘superorganisms’ can on survive together, as one, and not as individual parts. Spider and fish can survive alone, but just try keeping a pet worker ant without its colony.

Easy peasy. Eusocial, not a superorganism.



#17 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 18 2020 - 3:06 PM

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Well, all that is required of a superorganism is for individuals to collectively take on the roles of a single organism. I guess social spiders kind of fit the definition, but very loosely and not at all to the level of eusocial insects and colonial cnidaria.



#18 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 18 2020 - 7:16 PM

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Well, all that is required of a superorganism is for individuals to collectively take on the roles of a single organism. I guess social spiders kind of fit the definition, but very loosely and not at all to the level of eusocial insects and colonial cnidaria.

Not at all. They live together and cooperate, but still individually breed and compete.



#19 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted March 19 2020 - 4:00 AM

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I think individual breeding can fit into a superorganism, but competition absolutely cannot.



#20 Offline ponerinecat - Posted March 19 2020 - 8:24 AM

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I think individual breeding can fit into a superorganism, but competition absolutely cannot.

Individual breeding does not fit, as that directly leads to competition among mates.






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