30 replies to this topic

[Vendayn]

Humanity's destruction of earth and their mass genocide of entire species of animals and other life and each other is worse than relocating native ants.

Edited by Vendayn, February 22 2020 - 6:59 PM.

[gcsnelling]

Humanity's destruction of earth and their mass genocide of entire species of animals and other life and each other is worse than relocating native ants.

 True enough there are far worse things going on in the world than releasing ants which may or may not have a negative impact on the local or not so local environment, however if there is even a small chance of a negative impact why do it?

[SuperFrank]

Humanity's destruction of earth and their mass genocide of entire species of animals and other life and each other is worse than relocating native ants.

True enough there are far worse things going on in the world than releasing ants which may or may not have a negative impact on the local or not so local environment, however if there is even a small chance of a negative impact why do it?

THANK YOU!
This argument of "well OTHER people are doing WORSE things why not yell at THEM" is absolutely infuriating and infantile. Yes we are all aware that humanity as a whole is raping the Earth to death but that doesn't meant you should be an active participant.

Edited by SuperFrank, February 23 2020 - 6:52 AM.

[Da_NewAntOnTheBlock]

YES! THANK YOU FOR TELLING EVERYONE THAT! 

[Vendayn]

Except as I said in the other thread, people transport molds, bacteria and all kinds of things all the time. Going anywhere spreads pathogens. And unless its something like the coronavirus that gets infamy, no one cares about someone bringing sicknesses to various places. Sure can lessen the impact by not doing more, but that isn't a proper counterargument when people transport a ton more stuff than relocating a native ant would. I'm sure car tires alone transport more stuff than a person would relocating 1000s of native ant colonies. So never drive or travel anywhere either, I know in the other thread someone said should do less, but that wasn't really a counter argument. If you seriously are worried about pathogens then traveling is sure to be a problem. If you still drive places and travel, or get other people to travel (like ordering food) to spread potential pathogens, then you must really not care about potential pathogens. Especially since car tires alone I imagine are like a hive of all kinds of pathogens and nasty things they pick up. Just walking somewhere probably isn't much a problem as car tires, but I don't imagine the bottom of shoes to be very clean either. I mean, why care about one potential spread of pathogens and not another? Either you care to stop all spread of pathogens or not at all...there isn't really a middle-ground there.

 

And if you really care that much about pathogens, you must really hate immigrants coming from middle east or mexico/south america. Unless you are campaigning for every single immigrant to be detained for 48 hours in a bubble to make sure they aren't contaminated (ignoring coronavirus, though immigrants coming across the border still aren't checked for that anyway and coronavirus actually has a much longer incubation time.) But lots of other viruses can be spread from south america and mexico and middle east. But pretty sure everyone would be up in arms about that forcing every immigrant to be detained for X amount of time. But at least there wouldn't be any hypocrisy. I mean, you guys sure are worried about pathogens so you must also want every person detained traveling to or from another country or even state right? I mean, if pathogens are such a big deal when relocating an ant colony with such a tiny chance, immigrants and travelers must be even a bigger problem right? Humans carry tons of stuff more than anything else. I'm sure there are some people in the country that would love that idea. They can say its to stop the potential spread of pathogens.

 

I did do some googling however and saw captive butterflies can be a big problem, or releasing native fish back into a river/pond/lake after being in captivity. However, I have yet to be able to find relocating something 10-15 minute walk away to be a problem. Personally wouldn't release native ants anyway. I did when I was a kid, but they'd always get killed. So it was pretty pointless. Relocating ants has a vastly higher chance of success. And I can see how after reading a couple articles on other things, releasing a week, month, year+ old colony can be a problem. Since it is an issue with butterflies and native fish (as two examples) that get caught and kept, it would make sense it be a problem for ants (and termites) too. But, relocating native ants from being bulldozed or in danger of pesticide, or whatever, is a rather different and a completely different subject that I find would be harder to be against. I can understand though captive colonies being a problem since it is with many other things that are kept captive.

Edited by Vendayn, February 23 2020 - 11:24 AM.

[Vendayn]

I came to a realization having a discussion about releasing native ants, or relocating native ants is pretty pointless.

 

No one is going to change their mind. And this forum is VERY tiny in terms of number of people that come here. The amount of people who want to relocate ants at best, release native ants at "worst" outnumber everyone here by a huge amount. A lot of people don't care much in discord. And there is AntsCanada gets watched by millions and he releases INVASIVE ants (which is very bad). However, AntsCanada views outnumber even the ant discord and he will and does inspire millions of kids who will grow up and outplace all the old people who are against relocating native ants or releasing native ants in general. Sadly he shows releasing invasive ants is okay, so that too (again sadly) will be a majority opinion because of AntsCanada.

 

Outside this forum however as far as native ants go, the amount of people who are pro-relocating native ants/releasing native ants outnumber everyone else. And in the grand scheme of things, a vast majority is what rules in general. And hate it or not (which I actually do), AntsCanada teaches releasing invasive/exotic ants is okay to millions of kids. Yet those number of kids outnumber the whole ant discord which is still vastly bigger than this forum. And when I was last there, no one really cared about releasing/relocating native ants.

 

In any case, no one here will change their mind one way or another. Its like talking about politics or religion to people no one will change their mind. It would be more productive to argue against a brickwall. And for pro-killing native ants, whether that side like it or not, the amount of people AntsCanada reaches out to is vastly bigger than anyone here can or on discord. And when those kids grow up they'll slowly outnumber all the crowd that hates saving native ants as the anti-native ant crowd grow older and pass on eventually. I wish AntsCanada taught more about native ants and helping native life though, and not releasing non-native/exotic/invasive ants.

Edited by Vendayn, February 23 2020 - 11:46 AM.

[gcsnelling]

Mikey Bustos and ants Canada is about the worst thing that ever happened to the hobby.

[Vendayn]

Mikey Bustos and ants Canada is about the worst thing that ever happened to the hobby.

I'm gonna have to agree. We may disagree on relocating (native) ants, and actually I believe we both agree on releasing captive colonies. I'm not so hard headed to do research and find other things in captivity can be a problem after being released.

 

But his releasing exotic/invasive/non-native ants is just...well...worst thing he could teach to millions of kids. Its very sad and does not help native ants or the ecosystem at all.

[OhNoNotAgain]

Wow! I just watched an AntsCanada where he said he released a colony back to the wild (native species), I think years after he acquired it. I figured this is one reason so many Discord and Formiculture.com people dislike him. But I had no idea he released INVASIVE species too! That's pretty shocking.

 

In my case I am still not 100% convinced that releasing truly local ants into the middle of an INVASIVE species infestation is always a bad thing. I know Discord people are super against it. I'm not planning to do such a thing, but really, I'm not convinced it's necessarily bad. For example, if REALLY local ants could make headway against an invasive species and this allowed people to reduce the use of pesticides in an area, I'd argue it's potentially beneficial for the rest of the ecosystem. Like xeriscaping to reduce water usage - yet people bring in "native" stuff from miles away. Still saves water and possibly reduces pesticides/herbicides, so probably net benefit. But I'm not going to change anyone's mind.

Edited by OhNoNotAgain, February 23 2020 - 1:13 PM.

[Vendayn]

Don't want to find the video or link to it. But he released Monomorium pharaonis, which is an invasive species. That happened last year. And sadly, a bunch of people in his comments defended him and were for it. His reason was they were already all over where he lives so it doesn't do anything, but releasing invasive ants is bad no matter what even if they are secure in an area. Even worse than that is that teaches kids about releasing invasive ants and its okay to do so.

[AntsDakota]

The best solution would be getting someone with the right ideas up in competition with him, however unlikely that may be.