Jump to content

  • Ant Chat
  • General Chat
  •  
  •  



Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use, and contain no ads for members. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo
- - - - -

OhNoNotAgain's Prenolepis imparis trial (Schroedinger's ants)


20 replies to this topic

#1 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted February 9 2020 - 2:05 PM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

Today I got (bought) my locally collected Prenolepis imparis queens in two test tubes.
I know they are notorious for dying. They also are best left alone for 3 months.

Here's the recipe.

Attached Files


Edited by OhNoNotAgain, May 5 2020 - 8:18 AM.

  • T.C., Ants_Dakota and MinigunL5 like this

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#2 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted April 10 2020 - 9:40 AM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

2020.4.10

Schrödinger's Ants update.

I collapsed the waveform today.

Okay I should've have but I checked on them.

The queens appear to be alive. One test tube the cotton has turned black, the other is still white.

Both tubes have a tiny tiny pile of eggs.

I put them back....

Who knows, maybe they will eat those tiny pile of eggs out of stress.

 

They are back to being Schrödinger's Ants.


Edited by OhNoNotAgain, April 10 2020 - 9:41 AM.

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#3 Offline AntsDakota - Posted April 10 2020 - 11:16 AM

AntsDakota

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,623 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota
The notion that 9 out of 10 queens die in captivity is completely false. Whoever started that meant in the wild, not captivity. And I don’t believe they need to be left alone for that long. This guy checked his once a week: https://www.ohioants...mparis-journal/
  • Ant_Dude2908, OhNoNotAgain and Ants_Dakota like this
"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds. (including ants) And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV versionCurrently Keeping: Aphaenogaster picea, Aphaenogaster rudis, Camponotus pennsylvanicus, Formica subsericea, Lasius americanus, Lasius aphidicola, Myrmica sp., Pogonomyrmex occidentalis, Ponera pennsylvanica ______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ ___________________________My Journal__________________________________________________________________________________________<p>Attention South Dakotans! Join us on The SoDAK (Society of Dakotan Ant Keepers)

#4 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 5 2020 - 8:17 AM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

2020.5.5.

Just a note that I have now checked twice on the Schroedinger's ants, last time a day or two ago. (Previous time I noted in previous entry.)

All 6 appear to still be alive(?) but "clean" test tube has a smaller pile of eggs and the other "dirty" tube may have had some very very small larvae or at least a bigger pile. I'm not sure - this time around I didn't look too closely.

 

I'm a little concerned because the normally quiet room they are kept in has recently started having more activity (read: small human playing with stuff right next to their plastic bin). There's NOwhere else I can keep them that's any quieter or darker, so I'm hoping they don't get too freaked out.


Edited by OhNoNotAgain, May 5 2020 - 8:20 AM.

  • Ant_Dude2908 and Ants_Dakota like this

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#5 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 21 2020 - 11:14 AM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

2020.5.21

 

Peeked at the Prenolepis imparis again, and this time I was not dumb and took pics/videos without touching the tubes, then covered them up and closed the drawer again. Looks like they have larvae. The tube I thought was doing better seems to have a smaller brood pile now, but I can't really see well. I think 4 of the 6 queens are definitely still alive. Not sure about the other two. Pics of each tube just for reference. I'm not exactly sure when they were caught, but if we call it end of Jan/beginning of February 2020 then it's been almost 4 months.

 

Attached File  IMG_0335.jpg   81.93KB   0 downloads

 

Attached File  IMG_0336.jpg   87.36KB   0 downloads


Edited by OhNoNotAgain, May 21 2020 - 11:17 AM.

  • AntsDakota and Ants_Dakota like this

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#6 Offline ANTdrew - Posted May 21 2020 - 11:52 AM

ANTdrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,604 posts
  • LocationAlexandria, VA
What are Schrodinger’s ants?

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#7 Offline Temperateants - Posted May 21 2020 - 12:27 PM

Temperateants

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 279 posts

What are Schrodinger’s ants?

It has to do with the Schrodinger's cat thing, I think.


  • AntsDakota likes this

Check out my Youtube Channel! https://www.youtube....xh-HaScAuE5CShQ

Check out my Crematogaster Journal! https://www.formicul...e-2#entry141180

 

 


#8 Offline NickAnter - Posted May 21 2020 - 1:17 PM

NickAnter

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,501 posts
  • LocationOrange County, California

Schrodinger's cat is basically just the idea that unless something is inspected, you can never know its state. Really something that is super obvious, but because it sounds cool people think it must be some highly interesting phenomenon.


  • ANTdrew, AntsDakota and Ants_Dakota like this

Colonies:Nylanderia vividula

Lasius cf. americanus

Founding queens:

Camponotus hyatti/sayi

Temnothorax nevadensis

Brachymyrmex patagonicus

Pheidole navigans

Solenopsis sp. 1

Solenopsis sp.2

Monomorium cf. minimum.


#9 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted May 21 2020 - 2:07 PM

TheMicroPlanet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • LocationNew York, United States

Schrodinger's cat is basically just the idea that unless something is inspected, you can never know its state. Really something that is super obvious, but because it sounds cool people think it must be some highly interesting phenomenon.

I think the theorom goes further than that. It basically says something isn't real until it's observed; that it's only possibilites until, upon observation, the wave functions governing these possibilites "collapse" into one, certain reality (that's at least my understanding of it). I, for one, am kind of skeptical of that idea, but i'll keep an open mind to possibilities (ba dum tsss)...


  • AntsDakota and Ants_Dakota like this

#10 Offline ANTdrew - Posted May 21 2020 - 2:22 PM

ANTdrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,604 posts
  • LocationAlexandria, VA
Wow, never heard of this until today. Thanks for enlightening me.
  • AntsDakota and TheMicroPlanet like this

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#11 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted May 21 2020 - 3:03 PM

TheMicroPlanet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • LocationNew York, United States

Wow, never heard of this until today. Thanks for enlightening me.

Quantum physics is one of those things you love and hate at the same time, sort of like superposition (ba dum tsssX2)


  • AntsDakota and Ants_Dakota like this

#12 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 21 2020 - 5:27 PM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

Here's a reasonable Wikipedia article:

 

https://en.wikipedia...hrödinger's_cat

 

The parallel with the ants is I didn't know if the ants were alive or dead until I checked on them, and by some interpretations, by checking on them I was collapsing the waveform out of the "maybe dead, maybe alive" state, forcing reality to pick one or the other.

 

Just a nerd joke, really ... because Prenolepis imparis are notorious for liking to die. Though maybe honeypots take that title from what I hear.


Edited by OhNoNotAgain, May 21 2020 - 5:29 PM.

  • Ants_Dakota likes this

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#13 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted May 21 2020 - 7:53 PM

MinigunL5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts
  • Location(Near) Worcester, MA

0de8741a7d26ae98689c7b3339e97dfafea9fd26Here's a reasonable Wikipedia article:
 
https://en.wikipedia...hrödinger's_cat
 
The parallel with the ants is I didn't know if the ants were alive or dead until I checked on them, and by some interpretations, by checking on them I was collapsing the waveform out of the "maybe dead, maybe alive" state, forcing reality to pick one or the other.
 
Just a nerd joke, really ... because Prenolepis imparis are notorious for liking to die. Though maybe honeypots take that title from what I hear.

From my limited knowledge this is kinda how the wave form thing and superposition works. There is a wave(that is calculated from the quantum state) and any point from the center has a probability of coming to fruition when it inspected. These probabilities can be calculated with the shroedinger equation. The probability is the square of the amplitude of a part of the wave. So when you make a measurement the wave function collapses and the probability of measuring an outcome is the amplitude  of that outcome squared.
 
This ant thing is a bit different than the famous Schroedingers cat experiment. In the experiment the state of the cat on measurement is dependent on if an atom decayed or not. In this case its just if it died or not. 
While you are not looking at it is in a superposition of both dead and alive. Although it is not really entangled with any one thing.
Although I'm no expert I hope that this helped explain superposition. I like "Schroedingers ant"  :D

0de8741a7d26ae98689c7b3339e97dfafea9fd26that's the equation(I don't understand it tbh)


Edited by MinigunL5, May 21 2020 - 7:57 PM.


#14 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 22 2020 - 1:26 PM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

Yes, but whether the atom decayed or not seemed kind of analogous to whatever random event causes a death-prone queen ant to die or not.  :lol:

I mean we don't know why ants just up and die for no reason. Could be quantum mechanical for all we know. Maybe some random particle decays and POOF, dead queen.  :lol:


Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#15 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted May 22 2020 - 4:41 PM

MinigunL5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts
  • Location(Near) Worcester, MA

Yes, but whether the atom decayed or not seemed kind of analogous to whatever random event causes a death-prone queen ant to die or not.  :lol:

I mean we don't know why ants just up and die for no reason. Could be quantum mechanical for all we know. Maybe some random particle decays and POOF, dead queen.  :lol:

If we consider parallel universes. There could be one universe where you queen is dead  :o  ;)  :D

If parallel universes were the case. Schroedinger's cat would be alive in one universe and dead in the other. They would split upon measurement.


Edited by MinigunL5, May 22 2020 - 4:41 PM.


#16 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 23 2020 - 4:28 PM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

 

If we consider parallel universes. There could be one universe where you queen is dead  :o  ;)  :D

If parallel universes were the case. Schroedinger's cat would be alive in one universe and dead in the other. They would split upon measurement.

 

 

Oh yeah, I know. I've always hated Many Worlds theory.  :lol:  And I always wondered about if a cat ought to be counted as an observer in and of itself. As Dr. Google says, cats are fairly classical in any case.


  • MinigunL5 likes this

Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 


#17 Offline ANTdrew - Posted May 23 2020 - 4:44 PM

ANTdrew

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 2,604 posts
  • LocationAlexandria, VA
Ya’ll lost me a long time back.
  • MinigunL5 likes this

"The ants are a people not strong, yet they prepare their meat in the summer." Prov. 30:25


#18 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted May 23 2020 - 4:50 PM

TheMicroPlanet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 661 posts
  • LocationNew York, United States

 

 

If we consider parallel universes. There could be one universe where you queen is dead  :o  ;)  :D

If parallel universes were the case. Schroedinger's cat would be alive in one universe and dead in the other. They would split upon measurement.

 

 

Oh yeah, I know. I've always hated Many Worlds theory.  :lol:  And I always wondered about if a cat ought to be counted as an observer in and of itself. As Dr. Google says, cats are fairly classical in any case.

 

Makes you wonder what qualifies something as an observer. Self-awareness? Consciousness? Being able to process information?



#19 Offline MinigunL5 - Posted May 23 2020 - 5:08 PM

MinigunL5

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 211 posts
  • Location(Near) Worcester, MA

 

 

 

If we consider parallel universes. There could be one universe where you queen is dead  :o  ;)  :D

If parallel universes were the case. Schroedinger's cat would be alive in one universe and dead in the other. They would split upon measurement.

 

 

Oh yeah, I know. I've always hated Many Worlds theory.  :lol:  And I always wondered about if a cat ought to be counted as an observer in and of itself. As Dr. Google says, cats are fairly classical in any case.

 

Makes you wonder what qualifies something as an observer. Self-awareness? Consciousness? Being able to process information?

 

That part has always made me curious. Like how does making a measurement change things so drastically. I've know a lot more abou this subject than I used to. It's amazing how things function at the quantum scale.



#20 Offline OhNoNotAgain - Posted May 29 2020 - 11:55 AM

OhNoNotAgain

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 390 posts
  • LocationCalifornia Argentine Ant Territory

2020.5.29

Soooooo yesterday (the 28th) I checked on the ants again, and found one of the tubes had cotton and water turning PINK. (I thought purple until I looked at it in better light.)

 

After posting here on FC about it, I connected the pink test tube to a new test tube and left the pink tube in direct sunlight.

I didn't tap them in because I didn't want to lose brood, and I didn't want whatever spores raining down into the fresh tube.

 

73FF8898-254E-4608-843D-F68BE16609D5.jpeg

 

Because "Prenos are sensitive" and they hate light and so on I thought they might move fast.

 

Nope.

I left them out all night and into today and still they haven't moved.


Veromessor pergandei x2

Veromessor andrei

Camponotus fragilis

Camponotus sansabeanus

Tetramorium x2 (No I didn't want 2 colonies ... long story)

Prenolepis imparis queens in tubes

Termitat: Zootermopsis angusticollis

And bunches of isopods (various Armadillidium, C. murina, P. hoffmannseggi, P. haasi, V. parvus) and hordes of springtails

 





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users