Jump to content

  • Chat
  •  
  •  

Welcome to Formiculture.com!

This is a website for anyone interested in Myrmecology and all aspects of finding, keeping, and studying ants. The site and forum are free to use. Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to create topics, post replies to existing threads, give reputation points to your fellow members, get your own private messenger, post status updates, manage your profile and so much more. If you already have an account, login here - otherwise create an account for free today!

Photo

Gamergates vs Queens


  • Please log in to reply
13 replies to this topic

#1 Offline WILLj - Posted January 21 2020 - 12:39 AM

WILLj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts
I have been lucky enough to find a Rytidoponera metallica queen and I am in a search for some general information on how to keep them. I also wondering how gamergates work. I know roughly what gamergates are and how the gamergate system works. But I am finding it hard to find much information online that clearly states the differences between a gamergate and a queen. A quick question, would a colony of an ant species like Rytidoponera be able to live forever using the gamergate system?

#2 Offline Ants4fun - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:06 AM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota
Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 6:07 AM.


#3 Offline justanotheramy - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:18 AM

justanotheramy

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 173 posts
  • LocationSouth Australia

What if you just… abducted… random species-appropriate winged boys you encountered in the neighbourhood and dropped them in your colony?



#4 Offline Martialis - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:26 AM

Martialis

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,516 posts
  • LocationMississippi

Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.

 

They don't have to be mated. They can still lay eggs otherwise.They'll just be male.

 

I'm not sure if this is true with Rhytidoponera, but in some gamergate species males mate with their sisters and fertilize them. It is indeed possible—at least in some species—to have a fertilized gamergate as a reproductive in a captive colony.


Spoiler

#5 Offline Ants4fun - Posted January 21 2020 - 7:06 AM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.


They don't have to be mated. They can still lay eggs otherwise.They'll just be male.

I'm not sure if this is true with Rhytidoponera, but in some gamergate species males mate with their sisters and fertilize them. It is indeed possible—at least in some species—to have a fertilized gamergate as a reproductive in a captive colony.
The definition of a gamergate is a mated, egg laying worker ant. A worker ant that has not mated and cannot lay fertilized eggs is simply a worker. Many species of workers can lay eggs, but not mate with males.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 7:07 AM.


#6 Offline Ants4fun - Posted January 21 2020 - 7:10 AM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

What if you just… abducted… random species-appropriate winged boys you encountered in the neighbourhood and dropped them in your colony?


You can attempt this, however it will be hard to coerce them into breeding. There usually has to be environmental triggers that will stimulate them to fly and search for queens/gamer gates. Simply removing them from established nests and putting them into another nest will not ensure a successfully mated gamergate.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 7:11 AM.


#7 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 21 2020 - 10:34 AM

RushmoreAnts

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,246 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


Edited by AntsDakota, January 21 2020 - 10:34 AM.

"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#8 Offline WILLj - Posted January 21 2020 - 5:56 PM

WILLj

    Member

  • Members
  • PipPip
  • 12 posts

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

#9 Offline TheMicroPlanet - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:06 PM

TheMicroPlanet

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 764 posts
  • LocationNew York, United States

 

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

 

Of what nature is this "fight"? Is it a fight to the death (or until the opponent is subdued) or more of an amassing of information from each worker so the colony knows who would be the best gamergate?



#10 Offline Ants4fun - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:31 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

It would still be possible, as when the gamergate dies, new brood is still there available to be raised up. Once the new workers expose, they will then battle to be the next gammergate, with their organs intact.

#11 Offline Ants4fun - Posted January 21 2020 - 6:35 PM

Ants4fun

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 1,142 posts
  • LocationSouth Dakota

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.
Of what nature is this "fight"? Is it a fight to the death (or until the opponent is subdued) or more of an amassing of information from each worker so the colony knows who would be the best gamergate?

It varies from species to species. Harpegnathos are known for jousting for power with their mandibles. Others will simply be submissive, etc. not usually to the death, however, as that would be detrimental to the colony.

#12 Offline RushmoreAnts - Posted January 22 2020 - 12:48 PM

RushmoreAnts

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 4,246 posts
  • LocationSioux Falls, South Dakota

 

 

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.


After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

It would still be possible, as when the gamergate dies, new brood is still there available to be raised up. Once the new workers expose, they will then battle to be the next gammergate, with their organs intact.

 

So therefore, you need brood as well. (Did you mean 'eclose'?)


"God made..... all the creatures that move along the ground according to their kinds (including ants). And God saw that it was good. Genesis 1:25 NIV version

 

Keeping:

Tetramorium immigrans

Formica cf. pallidefulva, cf. incerta, cf. argentea

Formica cf. aserva, cf. subintegra

Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Pheidole bicarinata

Myrmica sp.

Lasius neoniger, brevicornis


#13 Offline Formicoidea - Posted January 22 2020 - 4:44 PM

Formicoidea

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 94 posts

ok.

So first up.

Some general information about Rhytidoponera queens.

During the founding stage they need protein. When i had my first queen i fed it seeds, sugars, etc. What i didn't give her was insects. insects are the best way to give them protein. Basically a must.

Also because it is a semi-claustral queen most people give it a small outworld, which allows them to forage by themselves. I don't really like giving them a large space when there is no chance they will succeed. 

Also, they are really bad climbers on glass and some plastics. i usually give them a bit of sand in their test-tube so they can move around easier.

 

On the gamergates. Technically you could keep a colony going forever with them.

However is it pretty difficult to get them to mate. you could potentially put the container outside with teflon on both sides to stop them escaping or being invaded. 

That would be your best bet.

Mating them in captivity is probably possible but i haven't heard of it being done, nor do i think it has a high probability of working.


  • Antennal_Scrobe likes this

Current Queens/Colonies:

- Iridomyrmex Bicknelli                          - Iridomyrmex Sp. (x2)

- Camponotus Consobrinus                - Camponotus Sp.

- Myrmecia Sp.                                        - Rhytidoponera Metallica

- Rhytidoponera victoriae                       - Notoncus Sp. (x2)

- Anonychomyrma Cf. Froggatti (x6)


#14 Offline Antennal_Scrobe - Posted January 23 2020 - 11:18 AM

Antennal_Scrobe

    Advanced Member

  • Members
  • PipPipPip
  • 933 posts
  • LocationMilwaukee, Wisconsin

I read a study once about this species, and apparently their gamergate colony was still going strong after over a decade with no added ants. It seems like it would be a better option to capture a small colony with an aspirator rather than raise a queen, as the queens are somewhat vestigial in this species and are rarely found in wild colonies.


Currently keeping:

 

Tetramorium immigrans, Pogonomyrmex occidentalis

Myrmica punctiventris, Formica subsericea

Formica pallidefulva, Aphaeogaster cf. rudis

Camponotus pennsylvanicus

Camponotus nearcticus

Crematogaster cerasi

Temnothorax ambiguus

Prenolepis imparis





0 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 0 guests, 0 anonymous users