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Could Feeding Ants the Same Things Be Bad


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#1 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 19 2018 - 10:05 PM

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For example, if I where to feed only one protein source, and two sugar sources hurt the ants in any way? I literally have three things I feed my 2 colonies, meal worms (only protein), sugar water and honey (only sugars). Should I switch up the protein source at least, maybe switch to crickets for a while. The only reason I have not switched to crickets is due to their smell, plus mealworms are are just so easy to take care of. If I am doing something wrong that could hurt the ants in any way please tell.


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#2 Offline Major - Posted June 20 2018 - 1:33 AM

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I personally don’t think it could harm the ants in any way. Unless you count getting bored of eating the same thing everyday. You should probably switch up the diet every few days. Ants like humans, will get bored of eating the same food everyday. Try raising some fruit flys too. I hear some ants love them. You can buy them from Petco/ Petsmart or your local pet store. It might help to know what species your ants are.

#3 Offline Phoenix - Posted June 20 2018 - 8:22 AM

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I believe it differs heavily from species to species, my Solenopsis geminata will take anything without question whereas my Camponotus colonies will not take the same food twice in a row.


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#4 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 20 2018 - 8:24 AM

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These are two extremely young veromessor pergandei colonies, since my solenopsis colony recently died in February. This solenopsis colony got the three things I mentioned (mealworms, honey, sugar water) and they eventually rejected food which stunted their growth, killing them within a month. I really don't wanna do the same thing to these harvesters.


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#5 Offline Barristan - Posted June 20 2018 - 8:40 AM

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Variation in food is always good. In nature they feed on a large variety of insects and also dead mammals, reptiles, birds, fish etc. And while some nutrition requirements of ants are already deciphered others are not. So, I try to offer my ants different types of insects and meat.

 

But to be honest to reach the variety as nature offers is impossible.

 

So yes it could be bad, but nobody knows for sure if it actually is. On the other hand there are colonies, which were kept in the laboratory which only fed on mealworms and honey and still survived several years or even decades. Ant keepers in general don't keep their colonies very long so it is hard to find out if nutrition has any influence on longevity.


Edited by Barristan, June 20 2018 - 8:43 AM.

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#6 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 20 2018 - 8:50 AM

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Variation in food is always good. In nature they feed on a large variety of insects and also dead mammals, reptiles, birds, fish etc. And while some nutrition requirements of ants are already deciphered others are not. So, I try to offer my ants different types of insects and meat.

 

But to be honest to reach the variety as nature offers is impossible.

 

So yes it could be bad, but nobody knows for sure if it actually is. On the other hand there are colonies, which were kept in the laboratory which only fed on mealworms and honey and still survived several years or even decades. Ant keepers in general don't keep their colonies very long so it is hard to find out if nutrition has any influence on longevity.

Well those solenopsis I only had for a year, died pretty quick and never actually exploded. I mean i hear solenopsis will eat anything but they just stayed at about 50 workers and eventually rejected food. I honestly just want a healthy colony of good size. I will most likely try heating them and I also wanna make sure their diet is right.


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#7 Offline anttics - Posted June 20 2018 - 10:55 AM

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I have a 1 year old veromessor pergandeim with about 3000 ants. I got them with 50 workers. This species is easier than fire ants, but slower to grow. This is what i gave them when they were young. Crickets which they love. Wingless flies. Boiled chicken with out any condiments. Once they reach the 100s. I added in and out burger which gave me the biggest majors. i have seen. Mealworms, roaches, pretty much anything at this point. For workers i have only gave them 3 seeds since i got them. Crushed sun flower seeds with out salt or condiments. Kentucky blue grass seeds their favority, and golden flax larva love this seeds too. I suggest never to feed your colony insects from the backyard or mountain with out boiling them. Parasites or deceases can kill your entire colony.

#8 Offline anttics - Posted June 20 2018 - 10:57 AM

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Make sure your seeds have no aditivesbor pesticides. Check the material list post. It has links to safe seeds.

#9 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 20 2018 - 11:06 AM

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kk definitely gonna need to try some of this, but my sunflower seeds are salted and the queens seem to like them either way is salt somehow bad for the ants? I found this bag of kentucky blue grass seeds I am gonna order pretty soon, sorry for the long link the google url shortener is down for me https://www.amazon.c...egrass seed 1lb


Edited by AntPhycho, June 20 2018 - 11:10 AM.

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#10 Offline Serafine - Posted June 20 2018 - 5:46 PM

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Giving ants only one food source is pretty much a recipe for malnutrition. There may be ants that are so specialized that they only eat one food item but most ants are not. This doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer from malnutrition when always given the same food but the risk is extremely high.


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#11 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 20 2018 - 9:16 PM

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Giving ants only one food source is pretty much a recipe for malnutrition. There may be ants that are so specialized that they only eat one food item but most ants are not. This doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer from malnutrition when always given the same food but the risk is extremely high.

I could possibly give them 2 protein sources, mealworms and crickets I will make myself handle, not roaches though. I will stick with the two honey and sugar water sources and I will feed them at least 2-3 different types of seeds. Is that enough to prevent malnutrition?


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#12 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted June 21 2018 - 2:41 PM

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Giving ants only one food source is pretty much a recipe for malnutrition. There may be ants that are so specialized that they only eat one food item but most ants are not. This doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer from malnutrition when always given the same food but the risk is extremely high.

I could possibly give them 2 protein sources, mealworms and crickets I will make myself handle, not roaches though. I will stick with the two honey and sugar water sources and I will feed them at least 2-3 different types of seeds. Is that enough to prevent malnutrition?
if you provide crickets and mealworms along with the following, you should be good:

-Bearded dragon dry insect mix (mealworms/crickets/ other dried insects. Can be found in pet stores.)
-Poppy seeds
-Crushed sunflower seeds
-Black nyger seeds
-Kentucky bluegrass seed
-Boiled chicken
-Sugar water

Edited by YsTheAnt, June 21 2018 - 2:42 PM.

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#13 Offline Serafine - Posted June 21 2018 - 3:24 PM

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I wouldn't feed dried insects (most ants won't take those anyway).


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#14 Offline AntPhycho - Posted June 21 2018 - 3:50 PM

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Nice, I got a lot of info from this post, my shopping list now consists of poppy seeds, crushed sun flower seeds, kentucky blue grass seeds, crickets, more mealworms, and black nyger seeds if I can find them. Thanks everyone, lets hope these small harvester colonies grow!


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#15 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted June 22 2018 - 6:28 PM

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I wouldn't feed dried insects (most ants won't take those anyway).

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#16 Offline ConcordAntman - Posted August 17 2018 - 5:01 AM

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I wouldn't feed dried insects (most ants won't take those anyway).


I have three C pennsylvanicus founding colonies at 10-15 workers each who readily take freeze-dried mealworms. I get the mealworms for Bluebird food in a gallon canister (they are available in smaller packages too). I first rehydrate them with a drop or two of warm water. The ants gobbled them up. I rotate my feedings and use mealworms as an alternate animal protein source; honey, hummingbird nectar, banana, raw chicken, fruit flies, mealworms.

I feed my ants once a day and clean out the feeding chamber every 6-12 hours. My question is, can you over feed a colony?

#17 Offline DaveJay - Posted August 17 2018 - 8:00 AM

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Giving ants only one food source is pretty much a recipe for malnutrition. There may be ants that are so specialized that they only eat one food item but most ants are not. This doesn't necessarily mean that they will suffer from malnutrition when always given the same food but the risk is extremely high.

I could possibly give them 2 protein sources, mealworms and crickets I will make myself handle, not roaches though. I will stick with the two honey and sugar water sources and I will feed them at least 2-3 different types of seeds. Is that enough to prevent malnutrition?
Most of what I've researched has been targeted at feeding fish or reptiles because I've kept them for more than 35 years and have been making and developing homemade frozen foods for them for nearly that long, I'm new to ant keeping so I don't know that I can offer very much relevant information but I can offer a few insights.
If you look at charts detailing the composition of various feeder insects you'll see that they can be quite different, not in so much that they contain different proteins, vitamins and minerals but more in that the ratios are different which can effect the uptake of certain vitamins and minerals, therefore it is best to use a variety if possible.
As stated above a variety of foods will lessen the chance of malnutrition because where one food might be deficient in a nutritional element another food might provide it in abundance, offering a wide variety of foods is the best way to make sure there are no 'gaps' in the nutrition provided.
As for providing different protein sources I think you don't realise how many are available to you just from day to day life. If you have other pets their food can be offered, fish food, cat food and dog food all provide different forms and ratios of proteins and can be added for variety.
I would also hope that in your household most days there would be some type of fresh meat used in preparing food for the family, small pieces can be put aside for the ants providing them with for instance beef one day, chicken another day, fish another day and so on (apologies to vegans/vegetarians). There are also vegetable sources of protein as vegans/vegetarians well know, nuts, grains, legumes and mushrooms spring to mind.
Then of course why not provide some of the vegetable and fruit scraps that result from food preparation, lots of variety there too. Of course these can also be fed to feeder insects to vary their nutritional value, gutloading is a very common practice in lots of animal husbandry and should really be as simple as feeding the feeder insects an hour or so before using as food, vary what you feed the feeders and you vary the nutrients they provide to your pets.
I can't see where you should be limited to mealworms at all, there's so many other options just in your house I would suspect! I do see where it is useful to have a staple protein source such as mealworms, they are certainly the easiest feeder insects to keep and breed. Feeding mealworms a slightly different mix of vegetables each time before feeding them to your ants will mean that they will provide the most range of nutrients possible.
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#18 Offline fleetingyouth - Posted August 18 2018 - 12:38 AM

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 I wonder about this too though I worry I'm under feeding them. For founding colonies under 25 ants how often should you feed? for colonies, 50-100 how often?

 

 

I wouldn't feed dried insects (most ants won't take those anyway).


I have three C pennsylvanicus founding colonies at 10-15 workers each who readily take freeze-dried mealworms. I get the mealworms for Bluebird food in a gallon canister (they are available in smaller packages too). I first rehydrate them with a drop or two of warm water. The ants gobbled them up. I rotate my feedings and use mealworms as an alternate animal protein source; honey, hummingbird nectar, banana, raw chicken, fruit flies, mealworms.

I feed my ants once a day and clean out the feeding chamber every 6-12 hours. My question is, can you over feed a colony?

 



#19 Offline CoolColJ - Posted August 18 2018 - 4:46 AM

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food is for the brood, sugars for the ants themselves.

So the larger the brood, the more food needed.
I don't think ant population has much to do with it

And the ants store food, at least the ones with social stomach.
I find it hard to believe that you would need to feed them everyday.
But for the ants that have no social sotmach, yeah you might need to feed their brood everyday

Edited by CoolColJ, August 18 2018 - 4:48 AM.

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#20 Offline ConcordAntman - Posted August 19 2018 - 4:49 AM

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food is for the brood, sugars for the ants themselves.

So the larger the brood, the more food needed.
I don't think ant population has much to do with it

And the ants store food, at least the ones with social stomach.
I find it hard to believe that you would need to feed them everyday.
But for the ants that have no social sotmach, yeah you might need to feed their brood everyday

 

I thought the sugars are for energy and the proteins are for structure (chitin, muscle, hemolymph). The queen and her brood pile are burning through both for the energy and protein necessary to lay eggs and metamorphose but, don't the nanitics need sugar and protein too?

 

Of my 3 colonies, one queen seems pretty physogastric (they're demolishing a freeze-dried mealworm here). It's been almost three months so I don't think it's parasites.

 

IMG 0589
 
I'll take your advice and back off on the feedings but I'll keep rotating the diet!
 
Thanks

 

 






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