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Camponotus Fragilis anttics


56 replies to this topic

#41 Offline anttics - Posted November 7 2018 - 11:16 AM

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Finally. I'm starting to see minors again. I forgot how small they were. Here is one on the top with her gaster red.





As I mention all minors died due to poisoning. Only the majors and most of the median survive the poison.
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#42 Offline sirjordanncurtis - Posted November 7 2018 - 7:08 PM

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Wow the minors look so small. The medians sort of look like the minors tbh.



#43 Offline anttics - Posted November 19 2018 - 8:29 PM

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So i have come across an issue. I did not have with the red fire brick. They are spiting insect and nectar goo. into the hydration dish. Which is connected to the water reservoir. It will mold. I think it has started to. If anyone has seen this behavior in fragilis colonies let ne know.







It looks black. I do not see any mold yet. 2 workers have died on the weekend. Minors. They were twiching on their backs. Moving their legs all over the place. They can not stand. They usually they died after 24 hour. No mass deads. Only 2 have died in almost 3 weeks. Since i moved them.

I did gave them lots of protein. Which they took with pleasure. Maybe they are.storing it in the worst place they can. I thought they would store it in their stomachs. Or it could be poop. I plan to not give them any insects for a 3 to 5 days. See if thwy eat all that goo.

Edited by anttics, November 19 2018 - 8:38 PM.


#44 Offline sirjordanncurtis - Posted November 19 2018 - 9:32 PM

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I think they usually like to dispose of extra food on the water source (no idea what's up with that). For me, the cotton absorbs it, and it just dries up. I don't think the would be the problem, but maybe you could try some other kind of water source. Btw, I was wondering, could you take a picture of your entire setup? Thanks!



#45 Offline anttics - Posted November 20 2018 - 11:07 PM

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Here is a pic of set up. on the left box. I found. Tigres the first super major of the colony. She has darker lines compared to othe majors. She is as long as the queen. her head is bigger than the queens. She is around 12mm. All info about fragilis says majors only grow up to 9mm. Wrong. However. I did feed then super food I made with protein. Keifer yougurt, nectar, and starch which gave me a few 10mm veromessor pergandei majors.



Its been a day in between this pics, And the black goo has not decreased at all.

This pic is a few hours ago


This one is from yesterday


Yet larva have black food inside them. So maybe they are. A few more days to prove this. Its been 2 days 3 tomorrow with out any protein.

Edited by anttics, November 20 2018 - 11:23 PM.


#46 Offline Leo - Posted November 21 2018 - 3:44 AM

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can we have the recipe?  :lol:



#47 Offline Scrixx - Posted November 21 2018 - 11:55 AM

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That's really interesting behavior. I can see the larva have black innards so they're definitely eating something black. Your liquid food is red so it doesn't add up unless they're actually eating the black goo. Well I haven't had any problems with black mold that looks like that killing my colonies so I don't think it'll hurt anything to leave them be if they're not dying. 


ScrixxAnts Queen Adoption

YouTube: View my ants

Keeping: Camponotus sansabeanus - C. vicinus - Formica francoeuri - Liometopum occidentale -  Pogonomyrmex californicus - P. rugosus - P. subnitidus - Solenopsis molesta - S. xyloni - Tapinoma sessile - Temnothorax sp.

Journals: Camponotus sansabeanus & C. vicinus | Pogonomyrmex californicus & P. rugosus | Solenopsis molesta & S. xyloni

Discontinued: Pogonomyrmex subnitidus


#48 Offline anttics - Posted November 21 2018 - 3:00 PM

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I know. I checked today, and it looks like its not decreasing. I'll take a pic of it every day for 5 day. They will be going on a diet for the moment. I still find some larva with black goo inside. 3 days with out any protein. so far 2 days more to go.

The recipe is a scoup of 24mg of protein. Mix with a bit of nectar. And some keifer yougourt to kill any fungi, and bacteria. That yougourt also provides more animal base protein. I use strach to make it into a paste. They all love it. But they take very little. Since its so pack with protein, and other vitamins.
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#49 Offline sirjordanncurtis - Posted November 21 2018 - 11:34 PM

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The black goo is definitely mold and leftover parts of insects. It shouldn't really harm your ants, but it'll most likely keep growing or stay the same size no matter what you do. Only bad thing is if it ends up covering the water source, since these desert ants have to rely on drinking the water to live.


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#50 Offline nurbs - Posted November 22 2018 - 2:17 AM

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What is Keifer yogurt? If it is a dairy product, would avoid. My understanding is that ants cannot digest milk or any form of whey protein.

 

Here is a pic of set up. on the left box. I found. Tigres the first super major of the colony. She has darker lines compared to othe majors. She is as long as the queen. her head is bigger than the queens. She is around 12mm. All info about fragilis says majors only grow up to 9mm. Wrong. However. I did feed then super food I made with protein. Keifer yougurt, nectar, and starch which gave me a few 10mm veromessor pergandei majors.



Its been a day in between this pics, And the black goo has not decreased at all.

This pic is a few hours ago


This one is from yesterday


Yet larva have black food inside them. So maybe they are. A few more days to prove this. Its been 2 days 3 tomorrow with out any protein.


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#51 Offline anttics - Posted November 22 2018 - 3:34 PM

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Keifer is a type of fungi. Which you feed milk or sugar water. It eats all sugar, and lactose. Their waste is a type protein. Which is similar to that of meat. No lactose is left. It also has anti bacteria, and anti mold properties. With a few ml of this yogurt in a fruit fly culture. I do not have to worry for fungi, mold or bacteria. My veromessor eat the keifer fungi alone since it reproduces, and i have to throw it away. I had no luck with novos. Or camponotus eating the keifer alone. With nectar and protein poweder they do take it. Nurbs are you sure ants can not diggest whei protein. Is made of eggs. Ants love eggs. As i said before whey protein bade food. gave me some of the biggest veromossor major, and fragilis by far. I only gave them that food for a month.

#52 Offline Scrixx - Posted November 22 2018 - 4:20 PM

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Keifer is a type of fungi. Which you feed milk or sugar water. It eats all sugar, and lactose. Their waste is a type protein. Which is similar to that of meat. No lactose is left. It also has anti bacteria, and anti mold properties. With a few ml of this yogurt in a fruit fly culture. I do not have to worry for fungi, mold or bacteria. My veromessor eat the keifer fungi alone since it reproduces, and i have to throw it away. I had no luck with novos. Or camponotus eating the keifer alone. With nectar and protein poweder they do take it. Nurbs are you sure ants can not diggest whei protein. Is made of eggs. Ants love eggs. As i said before whey protein bade food. gave me some of the biggest veromossor major, and fragilis by far. I only gave them that food for a month.

 

Never heard of Kefir so I ended up reading about it. It's a lot like the organisms for yogurt except Kefir is a mix of yeast and bacteria forming a symbiotic relationship. It produces are higher protein and fat content than normal yogurt.

 

That put aside, I don't think the Camponotus are actively culturing it as healthy kefir cultures look chunky and off-white while the stuff on your hydration tiles are black. It would also be odd for a species to start cultivating something their species have never seen before and I don't think there are any in the Camponotus genus that cultivate fungus, yeast, bacteria. I believe the black growth is just straight mold.

 

It's interesting though because you can see the larva are actively eating it since their insides are black. I wonder if they're storing food by spitting it out on a humid surface but it ended up molding. Maybe the mold isn't harmful so they're eating it anyways?

Your Novomessor and Camponotus probably don't eat the actual kefir colonies but are eating the byproducts when you add nectar and protein powder with it. 

 

Either way this is really cool and I'll be keeping an eye on your journal. I might invest in the Kefir too.

 

For the Whey it's something I never really thought about. Nurbs brings up a good point about ants not digesting it. Whey is a milk derivative and it's not like ants can culture milk or get it from the wild unless an animal with milk dies.  I have used whey in my liquid food mixes and I guess I was unintentionally starving my colonies of protein if they can't digest it. It makes sense because a lot of my test tube Formica francoeuri colonies stopped producing brood after months on liquid only diet with whey protein. I gave Mastrep a colony and it produced brood within a few days he gave them actual insect protein. 


ScrixxAnts Queen Adoption

YouTube: View my ants

Keeping: Camponotus sansabeanus - C. vicinus - Formica francoeuri - Liometopum occidentale -  Pogonomyrmex californicus - P. rugosus - P. subnitidus - Solenopsis molesta - S. xyloni - Tapinoma sessile - Temnothorax sp.

Journals: Camponotus sansabeanus & C. vicinus | Pogonomyrmex californicus & P. rugosus | Solenopsis molesta & S. xyloni

Discontinued: Pogonomyrmex subnitidus


#53 Offline anttics - Posted November 22 2018 - 10:12 PM

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Happy thx giving everyone. At home with the famly. Got me a chance to read some more. Scrixx has the right definition of keifer. This camponotus has not recieve keifer at all so no cultivation. It would be beyond cool. if they did discover that spiting nectar on keifer. will give them protein, They hate it. Only my veromessor. Eat the keifer with out any nectar. The black stuff in the dish is insects they regurgitated. The larva can handle mold. I believe. Interesting my super food is just keifer yougourt in the end. So its just a waste of my protein powder. Great. I believe ants are able to digest keifer yougourt. Since fedding my colonies keifer yougourt. I had larva of sizes. I had not seen before. There is a veromessor major out there from that batch who is a little bit smaller than the queen. 10mm I estimate. And a major from this fragilis colony who is as long as the queen, but with a larger head. Also a batch from. The same stuff i fed my veromessor. I will keep experimenting with keifer. Ill post here my findings

#54 Offline anttics - Posted November 27 2018 - 6:43 PM

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Well this colony worries me. If its not one thing its another. So i added an extra nest. Same as the one they lived in. Nothing different. So inexpanded their nest. Ever since i gave them the nest i had ants acting weird. Here is a gif

https://i.imgur.com/a7l6NA7.gifv

They lay on their backs. While trying to get up by moving their legs all over the place. Yet they can not get up ever again until they die. This process takes 1 to 3 days for them to die after they can get up. 3 days moving their legs non stop. I do not understand why are they dancing on their backs. The only explanation is they spraywd acid when I moved them. Hopefully just the few braves dummies. who tryied to spray are the ones dying. So far 6 ants have die. The large major just started dancing on her back for 2 days now. Another 2 ants are staring to show the same symptoms. Tomorrow I expect 2 more back dancers.
People who have this species. Do they act the same way before they die. Nurbs or Drew if you read this. what is your opinion. Thx guys. So far the colony is growing. 50 healthy larva imside. Plus 30 pupa days from waking up. And a tom of eggs. I also place a vinyl tube with some cotton for extra ventilation.

Some pics of the extra nest. If you look at the right end. There is a hole for tubing closed. I opened it up



YS I cleaned it up, and let it dry until there was no smell at all. So the nest is super clean, and sterelasized.

Edited by anttics, November 27 2018 - 6:54 PM.


#55 Offline YsTheAnt - Posted November 27 2018 - 6:44 PM

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Try disconnecting the nest and washing it out, then letting it air. It's probably a chemical of some sort.

#56 Offline anttics - Posted December 5 2018 - 2:35 PM

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ok update. colony's deaths have stop. I also believe the colony was feeding that mold I recorded it. they throw their trash, and cocoons on top. then use it to feed the larva. I'm not sure, but they were magically getting proteins. even a small major was grown. i clean up the set up.  here is the video.

 


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#57 Offline anttics - Posted January 5 2019 - 8:44 PM

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Well the colony has grown past 300. They can not fit on their nest. 20 of them are always outside, and in the test tube. New bactch of 50 will be born in days. I have decided to use a large tank. Intended for the xenomorph colony. Which had an issue with ants getting into the water reservoir, and drowning inside it. Issue has been fixed in a way. Since its poring rain tonight in LA. I'm starting the build up. Here are some pics




It will be a hybrid nest. Dirt and bricks. I used a base from hydrostone for the bricks to stand on.




This side will have no bricks or base. Ill use wet sand to cover the moss on this side. After that layer of sand is laid all over it. I will put their digging medium.




I will only use 3 bricks. 1 will be enough for a thousand. Then i will open the rest. If they decide to make nest in the medium go nuts i say. I will keep the bricks humid while the dirt. i will barely put water in it. So i doubt they will dig for a few years.

I'm also thinking of doing a spring tale dome on the corner. With a hole 1 inch under the dirt. With a mesh big enough for spring tales to get out, and dig into the semi dry dirt to reach the wet moist bottom. Or just stay in their dome. I hope they get to reach the bottom. When these dummies start doing their gross black fungus culture.

Edited by anttics, January 5 2019 - 8:47 PM.





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