22 replies to this topic

[NanceUSMC]

I'm curious to know what experience others have with queens dying in their tubes... 

 

This is the first year I've wild caught queens, and so far I've tubed 3 different queens and have had 2 die...  1 (unknown sp) died before I even got her home, literally within 2 hours of being put into the temporary container (sat on my desk at work)...  I never even got a chance to give her a proper setup...  the second, what is believed to be a Forelius, was very active, and had laid about a dozen eggs after about 36 hours, then suddenly just died last night...  She was in a simple tube, with bottled water, kept at ~80 degrees...  the last is what appears to be a Pheidole, has not yet shed her wings, and has laid no eggs (not sure if she's infertile, as it may be too soon to tell)...  

 

So, I'm wondering what everyone else's experience is with queens dying in their tubes...  Is it just bad luck for me so far, or is it normal to have a high percentage of them die off?

[Phoenix]

Fairly high I should say, although most of them never laid any eggs, to begin with.

Even if they did, they'll never hatch and simply remain as such for months end. 

[Bracchymyrmex]

In my experience, it depends on the species and how often you check on them and the conditions you give them. Over the past year and a half, I've caught about 200 queens, sold about 40, kept about 70 and lost the rest. 

 

For some genera like Pheidole I have yet to have a queen die in a test tube without first establishing their first generation whereas for Tetramorium I lost more than two-thirds of my queens as most of them were caught in a pool (and I believe they drank some chlorine). For others like Crematogaster I've lost about a sixth of the queens I've ever caught and that figure seems to carry over into most other species that were caught under normal conditions and kept in an optimal way. 

 

So honestly, it's up to chance but if I had to put a number to it (and this is only from my experience with large sample sizes) I would say the mortality rate range is between 8% and 16% (but can be as low as 5% or as high as 60%)

[antsinmypants]

I caught 10 Camponotus modoc queens up around Shaver Lake, CA on 5/10/18, placed them in their test tube setup with heating cable at the open end. I'm down to 5 as of this afternoon. One even laid 13 eggs that were starting to go into larvae stage when she just suddenly died this afternoon. I tried to get one of the other queens to voluntarily go into her test tube and adopt them as her own, but she wouldn't pick them up. Finally I used a wooden bamboo skewer to transfer them into the foster queen's tube, and now she is taking care of them along with her other eggs. If I had to sum up this hobby, then I'd say it's more pain than gain but when you finally have that ant colony it's like pure ecstasy. 

[NanceUSMC]

Thanks all!  Good knowledge to have...  Bummed me out pretty good when I read on here about Forelius being one of the hardier, more easy/beginner species, and then my gal dies 3 days after I get her...  Made me question whether or not I was screwing up even the most basic of tasks (putting water and cotton into a tube)...

 

Is it possible to "check on them to death"?  and if so, what's too much?  I generally look in on mine about every 4-7 days, but the Forelius I wasn't quite prepared for and she got jostled once daily for 3 days (found her dead on the 3rd), but even so I can't imagine that's what caused the death...

[Scrixx]

Did you wash your test tubes in warm water and soap? I lost dozens of queens on the way home just within an hour or two of catching them. There may be residual toxins in them. Some of the queens don't die but are paralyzed instead so I'm leaning towards toxins. Sadly I didn't really think of it until this season so I recently just washed all of my test tubes with soap and water. Also if you're catching only one queen here and there and it wasn't a major nuptial flight, they might just be infertile. Infertile queens kind of just die on their own. 

 

In my short time anting I would say there's a 10-20% death rate after putting them into test tubes. I'm not counting the ones that died or were paralyzed before making it to a founding test tube since that's probably my fault, a collection injury, toxins, or something else. 

 

You can probably check on them to death. If she panics and runs around every time, she's using energy. They're normally in an enclosed dark space without much stress. They just sit there and tend to their brood. You can try offering sugar water before putting them in the test tube setup so that they regain some energy spent during their nuptial flight. Some queens will accept it and other won't. I don't see any harm in offering sugar water. It just depends on the queen. When I had no thermostat, I was checking on my Camponotus spp. queens nearly daily to check temperature. They didn't care, they just sat there. Smaller queens tend to be more jumpy like Pheidole spp. If they're panicking then leave them alone. If they don't mind and are just sitting there, not touching the brood or walking, then it's probably fine. 

[CoolColJ]

As far as self caught queens go, 100% success rate

 

I just rinse out all my test tubes and capture vials in warm water

I use tap, filtered water for the test tubes. Could even go a step and use the boiled ones I drink.

 

I give them a foil of raw honey, and usually leave it in there, but not always

Edited by CoolColJ, May 20 2018 - 7:58 PM.

[nurbs]

It's species specific and also setting up the test tube properly. Be sure the water saturates the entire cotton when creating the reservoir. Be sure the test tubes and clean and sterile. Use bottled water. You shouldn't have a high percentage die off if you found them right after their flight. If you found stragglers a month after their flight who couldn't find a chamber, then yes, they have a higher chance of dying.

 

From experience, only Myrmecocystus or Acromyrmex have a high mortality rate, regardless if you use a test tube or not.

 

Most Camponotus will not die in test tube setups. Last year I grabbed about 30 C. modoc and only 3 or so died, all were in test tube setups.  Also have about a dozen C. semitestaceus from the desert of last year, they aren't laying many eggs and haven't even produced workers yet, but amazingly they are still alive and started laying eggs again.

[T.C.]

Like others said, it just depends. But overall I would say I have a 90% success rate. Hibernation can take a large toll though, this year was my worst since I had lost a lot from unkown causes.

[CNewton]

I had 5 Crematogaster- all dead. 12 Lasius- 10 dead. 2 Myrmica- both dead. 5 S. molesta, tube dried up- dead. All my Camponotus and Tetramorium have survived. My wild caught Aphaenogasters are thriving, as well.  I was so skeptical of people claiming to capture as many queens as possible because of casualties. I will probably stick with what I still have going. I probably won't be hunting too hard this year. So many deaths had me discouraged. Going to focus on what I have now. Then the Lasius will fly and I'll be out with my tubes.

[NanceUSMC]

So it sounds like I'm doing everything 'right' (no soap when cleaning the tubes, not overheating/underheating them, making sure the cotton is saturated all the way through, etc)...  just kinda shocked me when the 'easy' one died...

 

 

I had 5 Crematogaster- all dead. 12 Lasius- 10 dead. 2 Myrmica- both dead. 5 S. molesta, tube dried up- dead. All my Camponotus and Tetramorium have survived. My wild caught Aphaenogasters are thriving, as well.  I was so skeptical of people claiming to capture as many queens as possible because of casualties. I will probably stick with what I still have going. I probably won't be hunting too hard this year. So many deaths had me discouraged. Going to focus on what I have now. Then the Lasius will fly and I'll be out with my tubes.

 

Man, I feel for ya!  I'm discouraged with 5 deaths (counting 3 from last year), I would've probably given up completely with 20ish

[antsinmypants]

Well, I obviously don't have the magic touch when it comes to handling C. modoc queens (or any other queen for that matter). That fact admitted, how long should I keep the C. modoc queens in their test tubes? Mickey Bustos of AntsCanada fame says wait till there are 8 or 9 workers before attempting to move them into a formicarium. Mack Pridgen of THA fame says move the queen before her pupae eclose from their cocoons. Who's right?

[StayLoki]

I hope you don't mind me sharing as well.
This all started for me when I wanted to get an ant farm, but quickly realized being just workers they die off. I wondered how 'real ant keeping' was done and quickly got sucked into the Myrmecology worm hole I noticed people collect like 70-80 queens and I always thought why? I realise people sell them so maybe for that purpose? and to increase odds of having a fertile one.

I only have 3 queens tho and they've just been what I happened apon, as I learn to identify them and where/when to spot them.

My very first one was a winged Prenolepis imparis!! that wish to gosh I would have kept. But sadly I let her go for fear she wasn't fertile, and being super new, unsure what the heck to actually do with her.

Lasius flavus, Crematogaster sp., and a Lasius umbratus(currently in the process of merging her with host workers and larvae)
All doing well.

But as I literally just started this January+, my odds could swing rapidly

[noebl1]

I find 25% mortality rate on average here.  Some species are worse than others.

 

I've tried in general try to keep 2-3 of any species I want to keep due to things happening.  I started out with about a dozen Tetramorium queens (all fertile), in 2016 from a friend's pool.  I gave most of them away and kept 2.  I lost a queen from those 2 I kept this Spring for no apparent reason (2 hibernations, no worker loses), so you never know.  I get very nervous with only a single queen of a species as besides being fertile, any number of things can happen to them.

 

Most of my ants are small enough they are still in test tubes inside an outworld at this point (or in some cases, spread themselves across a couple test tubes.)

[Canadian anter]

It depends on the species for me. For some species, I've never had any queens die. For others, I've had 100% death rates.

[NanceUSMC]

A bit of good news in this thread for me...  After yesterday's thunderstorms in North Texas, I did find 3 more Forelius queens this morning (and 3 others I'll have to have identified when I can get decent photos of them, as well as about 200 Invicta queens) to replace the one I had that died this weekend...

[AntBread]

Personally, I do not like test tube set-ups for queen ants. I'd much rather prefer a small formicarium (Mini Hearth, Atom Chamber, etc.). I used to keep my Formica Subsericea queen in a test tube set up but she didn't seem to like it very much and constantly ate her brood. I bought a mini hearth from Tar Heel ants about a few months ago and I am pleased to say that she is now successful and has 3 workers currently with a batch of eggs. I find that formicariums are easier to use and more successful than test tubes (Note: I've had my queen since September 2017 and she has never had a successful batch of brood until I moved her into the formicarium). Honestly, it's your own preference and may differ depending on your queen ant and what kind of habitats they usually live in in the wild but I prefer small starter formicariums over test tubes. Hope this helped! GL with your ants!

[StayLoki]

^a test tube is a formicarium..

[IcarusSkybound]

I’ve found about 25 queens this season and I’ve only seen 2-3 die so far. One of them was a Camponotus pennsylvanicus. queen and the other two I suspect were parasitic queens. So about 10-12% so far for me but I’m sure I’ve been lucky. I have an injured Camponotus Nearcticus queen that I suspect will die off before Winter. I’m hoping she survives.

[MegaMyrmex]

For me, formic acid sprayers are the biggest hurdles with test tube setups. The small, enclosed space can cause a buildup of these chemicals and since the queens cannit escape them, they simply die. I try to introduce them by covering the test tube with tinfoil or red filter and put it into an empty container lined with baby powder or I introduce them in the test tube setup and put it in the refrigerator for a minute or two. I lost many formica sp. and camponotus sp. queens due to this.