100 replies to this topic

[dean_k]

I've received this Formica subsericea queen with some workers and no brood from a local guy. It is actually from Antsnational who's based on Hamilton.

 

I am used to seeing Myrmica and Lasius. And what I immediately noticed upon seeing Formica subsericea was that they were very jumpy.

 

Below video was taken as soon as I got home.

 

 

 

And I took another video few hours later. I gave them a fruit fly and some sugar water.

Their behaviors are clearly and distinctively different from Myrmica and Lasius.

 

First of all, they are fast but seem to have a tendency to freeze on spot momentarily. They also seem to have a tendency to direct antennae upwards a lot as if sniffing air.

 

The queen is very inactive as if she's simply lazy. In comparison, Myrmica queens act like workers but slightly bigger.

 

I have yet to decide which formicarium I am going to use. For now, I will leave them the small case they came in.

 

 

[benjiwuf]

they are much different from both of those species, they can be disturbed extremely easily! however i find them to be much much more active than myrmica or lasius. they'll go crazy over fruit flies also, so if you want to watch them hunt like crazy just keep them stocked up with flies. light can also be a bit of a touchy thing for them, just keep that in mind. i'm surprised your queen is so docile though, mine is the most active of the two in my young colony. i look forward to reading more about your colony though so i can compare notes!  

Edited by benjiwuf, January 9 2015 - 5:28 PM.

[dean_k]

They were in hibernation before being delivered to me, so that probably has something to do with the queen's laziness.

 

Regardless, the queen is a little more active now and currently chewing a fruit fly.

[dean_k]

Some further observations.

 

1. They don't seem to mind light at all. I think they are used to light. But they are highly sensitive to change of air.

2. While they are jumpy, they seem to calm down real past unlike Myrmica who once panic remain in panic state for a minute or so.

3. They really love fruit flies. I gave them 3 more later. But they eat differently. Myrmica trim wings and legs. These girls just eat whole holding it with front legs or holding it with mandibles.

[dean_k]

I've placed them in Grotube for now. I had to relocate them because they were trying to dig into the material in their original case.

 

But it hasn't been going well. Like Ben's colony, they've chosen to stay in outworld. I've seen workers exploring inside of Grotube but there is no tandem running or anything. Their body languages tell me that aren't really interested.

 

I will give them a week because I don't really have a choice. My tar heel ants order is to be shipped out sometime next week and the shipment contains a growth chamber which I am going to use for these if they reject Grotube.

 

 

 

Edited by dean_k, January 10 2015 - 8:53 PM.

[drtrmiller]

I'm sorry you're having trouble, and I'll certainly do as much hand-holding as I can to help achieve the desired outcome.

 

This seems to be an ideal colony for the GroTube, in terms of size.  The GroTube is a tool first, and a formicarium second. There is no reason why it would be impossible to successfully use this tool with these ants.

 

Antkeeping is not a hobby for those unwilling to experiment. The reward you get with GroTube is unparalleled visibility. But no one ever said success came without a learning curve. Similarly, most desktop PCs are fine and capable tools; but in the wrong hands, they're about as useful as a brick.

 

The first mistake others I've heard have made when using a GroTube is to simply dump the ants in the foraging area, as opposed to using the supplied tubing connectors to fit over test tubes to relocate ants directly to the nest portion itself. It would be very difficult to determine why these ants have decided to stay in the outworld, as opposed to the nest, since ants don't speak our language very well.

 

What is known, is that the ants have examined their surroundings and have decided, collectively, that some attribute to the foraging area is more attractive than the combined attributes of the nest area. It is up to the antkeeper to make adjustments so the ants feel comfortable in their new home, thus resulting in the outcome of the ants residing in the desired section of the formicarium.

 

Checklist with corrective action steps:

1. Too much illumination. There is less light in the foraging area because of the opaque lid. Place a towel or other opaque material over the nest area, and illuminate the foraging area with a lamp until the ants move inside the nest area.
    
2. Too dry. Fill the water reservoirs to the very brim (touching the acrylic lid). Hydration works best with the addition of small amounts of substrate along the outside of the brim, where the air ducts are located, by which water will wick into the substrate when the reservoirs are almost overflowing, making the nest very humid (see below "Photo B").
    
3. Too wet. Remove the water with a needle syringe (not included).
    
4. Undetermined material preference. The supplied 6 substrates may be used in some combination to carefully customize some part of the interior of the GroTube, making it similar to a natural nest. No doubt, you've seen how dspdrew chose to customize his nest for a colony of Pogonomyrmex.
   
   
   Photo A (Pogonomyrmex inhabiting a GroTube, sand substrate lines the floor)
   
   I wish I could go into more detail as to how to go about doing this, and the best practices, but that would be beyond the scope of this troubleshooting guide. I can say that all my Lasius colonies chose to add substrate from the foraging area to the nest area when the inside of the nest was very moist, whereas some ants prefer to excavate loosely placed substrate that is already placed in the nest area, taking it out.  Some ants prefer more substrate than others.
   
   
   Photo B (Lasius inhabiting the GroTube. Ants have brought in various substrates and customized the habitat.)
   
   Here is a rather unattractive photograph, nonetheless one that depicts my most successful Lasius colony inhabiting their GroTube. They recently started bringing in a ton of black sand substrate (included with kit), in response to my adding a lot of water in the water reservoirs. The nest is so humid, much like their natural subterranean habitat, condensation formed when the temperature in the room dropped within the past few hours.

The above 4 attributes are the only attributes that may be adjusted to attempt to make the nest portion of a GroTube more attractive than the attached foraging area. The problem is that the ants were introduced to the foraging area; or, if they were first introduced to the nest area, they were not allowed sufficient time to acclimate before attaching the foraging area.

 

But to reiterate, the GroTube, as a tool, and like any formicarium, must be used with the idea that one must respond to deficiencies such as the amount of light, moisture, or quality/quantity/orientation/location of building materials, with the appropriate corrective action, in order to attain success.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 11 2015 - 12:42 AM.

[dean_k]

I actually prepared the nest before placing them in. I added water to the foams and gave it a full day for air inside to get damp. I also placed a towel over the nest area. Both of which were basics of making ants relocate.

 

There are only 2 reasons I can think of why they are refusing to move in. And tubing wasn't an option because they came in a small cup with a hardened clay on bottom.

 

1. They were in hibernation just few days ago, so perhaps they are unwilling to turn on full motors. I am not quite convinced at this because they seemed overly active when I gave them fruit flies.

 

2. Outword does seem to be more attractive for them for a trait I've noticed. They seemed to like spacious places instead of narrow and shallow places.

 

I did attempt to herd the queen into the Grotube but that didn't work out too well. She was going everywhere but the entrance.

[drtrmiller]

The original GroTube features a lofted cut from 12.5 mm to 5 mm circles, with the center of the circles coincident with the upper surface of the nest area.

 

I've made a revised version which goes from 18.5 mm to 8.5 mm, with the center of the circles 3 mm below the upper surface of the nest area.

 

I've also modified the width and height of the air ducts.

 

The sum of these changes brings a substantial increase (nearly 100%, in fact) in space and ceiling height, which will better accommodate larger ants, exclusively.  The material will also be identical to that of the foraging area, which means the smell will be identical between the two.

 

If fabrication is a success, I'm expecting to ship this prototype on Monday via UPS to Canada, wherein you'll receive it on Thursday of this week.

 

If the ants acclimate to the new version, it will be clear that one or more of the changes was needed for this species to feel comfortable in this setup, which will be invaluable insight for future product development and research.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 11 2015 - 9:22 AM.

[dspdrew]

I would not take the behavior of one brand new ant colony as a telling sign of how well a setup works or doesn't work. As everybody knows, I have TONS of ant colonies, and sometimes I'll have one that just does strange things; even this very sort of thing. Sometimes some of mine, unlike all the others of the same species, will just decide they don't want to live in the test tube and instead setup their home right in the corner of the foraging container. This is why I have learned to not think much about the behavior of new colonies unless I start to see a very obvious pattern.

[dean_k]

Yeah, but Ben has the same species and his is also staying in outworld, so that's 2 out of 2.

[drtrmiller]

Yeah, but Ben has the same species and his is also staying in outworld, so that's 2 out of 2.

 

That is why he already received another nest from me to try, and also why I'm sending you another nest to try.

 

Between the two of you, I was hoping I could figure out what the problem may be with this species.

[dean_k]

The species could just inherently act awkwardly in captivity.

 

Fun to watch though. Their behaviors are a lot easier to read compared to Myrmica who send mixed signals all over.

[benjiwuf]

i also did not move them properly, i was impatient. i should have let the ants move when they were ready. however i am working on moving them into a new nest now with no rush or disturbances (i have seen them exploring it more and more everyday). i'm honestly beginning to think that this particular species (or just ours at least) can be extremely stubborn and do what they wish no matter the consequences lol. i'm also wondering what the air flow requirements could be for this particular species (high acid spraying). they may see a foraging area as a more suitable home because no foraging area is air tight, where as all nests tend to be considerably less able to circulate air with small colonies specifically (this is more of a question than anything else really). either way i'm not concerned, my myrmica loved the GroTube, and when they have a larger population i plan to let them move back in when they want.

Edited by benjiwuf, January 11 2015 - 12:00 PM.

[Mercutia]

I would add some of the coconut substrate in the nesting area for good measure. Formica subsericea loves woody substrate and it tends to calm them down so they aren't so panicky.

 

Them staying in the outworld is not indicative of the quality of the setup in question. I had a ytong nest and an outworld where they rather chilled in the outworld than go into the ytong setup. I find that Formica in general are just picky ants. And annoyingly stupid at times.

[dean_k]

They seem to have loosened up a little and look very comfortable ... in the outworld.

 

 

Edited by dean_k, January 11 2015 - 3:38 PM.

[drtrmiller]

Did they appear interested in Blue 100?  

 

When it was being trialed, Formica in general were some of the only ants I heard that would consistently refuse to eat it.

 

Kind of silly, if you ask me, seeing how "Formica" is in the byFormica name ;~)

Edited by drtrmiller, January 11 2015 - 3:40 PM.

[dean_k]

I've given them following foods so far.

 

1. Fruit fly: They absolutely loved it.

2. Mealworm: They showed interest but did not eat it in the end.

3. Blue 100: Nada. Didn't even bother at all.

 

Therefore, so far they've taken fruit flies and super water only. I caught a tiny spider this evening, so I will give it to them later.

[drtrmiller]

I'm not at all surprised.  

 

The short time I kept Formica, I eventually gave up on them because they were so particular about everything.

 

There are plenty of people who have success with them, but the founding stage is incredibly difficult compared to other species.

Edited by drtrmiller, January 11 2015 - 3:51 PM.

[Mercutia]

The founding stage was never an issue with me. It's the part that comes after that's annoying. I've had a 100% success rate with the founding stage for my Formicas. It's getting them to keep brooding after that which is tricky.

[dean_k]

"Doh" moment for me because they rejected a tiny dead spider. The queen freaked out and workers fled.

 

In the end, I took it out and gave it to my Myrmica colony. The Myrmica duly took its legs off and took it to their queen's chamber.

 

I gave them 2 dead fruit flies and they enjoyed them.

 

What (the hell) is up with these ants?