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Ants All Died One Night (Reason?)


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#1 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 18 2018 - 4:07 PM

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Hey I haven't been on this forum in a long while because I haven't really had any questions and the colony seemed extremely healthy. Yesterday everything was normal, I feed them full mealworms every few days with fresh honey. I had a colony of about 30 to 50 ants. The species is solenopsis invicta. Today when I was ready to feed them they were all laying in their container dead, there were three survivors and the queen, who still had some brood, just walking around the test tube, with the rest of the colony dead outside. I thought that maybe this set of workers died off and she will have another set, that is what I am hoping, the colony is about 6 months old. Anyone know how they died?

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#2 Offline KBant - Posted January 18 2018 - 4:13 PM

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very unusual. most likely what they ate killed them. 



#3 Offline Karma - Posted January 18 2018 - 4:41 PM

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Ya this is really odd. I agree with KBant, it could be something they've eaten, such as a parasite that was in the food then past to them. You should also try and get a close up picture to examine if they have mites. If you heat them, another possibility is that it was too hot for them and you may have cooked them, although that's unlikely if there are still some alive. 

 

It could have also just been that was just a generation of workers and they had died from old age, normally however it is hard to notice thisas the queen will lay so many eggs. If this is the case it seems your queen hasn't been laying many eggs.



#4 Offline Serafine - Posted January 18 2018 - 4:54 PM

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Wait a moment.. a six months old Solenopsis invicta colony had only 50 workers? I'm pretty sure they had issues before, usually these ants multiply with a speed beyond crazy.


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#5 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted January 18 2018 - 6:57 PM

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I noticed that a lot of them are in that trench ring around the container. Can they climb out of that? I always have to baby my ants by filling those up.



#6 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 18 2018 - 9:15 PM

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I noticed that a lot of them are in that trench ring around the container. Can they climb out of that? I always have to baby my ants by filling those up.


Yes they can climb out. No problems before.

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#7 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 18 2018 - 9:17 PM

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Ya this is really odd. I agree with KBant, it could be something they've eaten, such as a parasite that was in the food then past to them. You should also try and get a close up picture to examine if they have mites. If you heat them, another possibility is that it was too hot for them and you may have cooked them, although that's unlikely if there are still some alive. 
 
It could have also just been that was just a generation of workers and they had died from old age, normally however it is hard to notice thisas the queen will lay so many eggs. If this is the case it seems your queen hasn't been laying many eggs.


Yea really hoping it was just the generation, I feed the "giant" mealworms is that a problem? I feed them organic honey so that couldn't have been the problem, and if it was the food how come the queen didn't die? This just is not a fun experience for me.....

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#8 Offline Serafine - Posted January 18 2018 - 10:42 PM

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Giant mealworms are treated with growth hormones that can negatively impact other invertebrates that eat them. Also I generally found mealworms (and superworms) to be crap food for ants, all my ants hate them. You should try crickets, grasshoppers, locusts, roaches, small spiders, meat flies and fruit flies and as additional food (not primary diet) minced meat and pure meat cat food (no cat food with plant crap like cassia gum in it).

I'd also recommend offering them sugar water or diluted maple syrup instead of honey, especially smaller colonies can have issues with honey.

 

And you should probably give them some sand to work with, most of my ants use sand in some way (the Lasius have put tons of sand on their test tube's cotton to suppress mold and the Camponotus put sand into their garbage chambers probably for the same reason).

 

Solenopsis invicta usually has an insane growth rate when conditions are right - six months should be enough for them to explode into the multiple thousands, unless you keep at 20°C or less (which massively slows their growth) there is clearly something wrong in general.


Edited by Serafine, January 18 2018 - 10:45 PM.

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#9 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 19 2018 - 6:55 AM

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Giant mealworms are treated with growth hormones that can negatively impact other invertebrates that eat them. Also I generally found mealworms (and superworms) to be crap food for ants, all my ants hate them. You should try crickets, grasshoppers, locusts, roaches, small spiders, meat flies and fruit flies and as additional food (not primary diet) minced meat and pure meat cat food (no cat food with plant crap like cassia gum in it).
I'd also recommend offering them sugar water or diluted maple syrup instead of honey, especially smaller colonies can have issues with honey.
 
And you should probably give them some sand to work with, most of my ants use sand in some way (the Lasius have put tons of sand on their test tube's cotton to suppress mold and the Camponotus put sand into their garbage chambers probably for the same reason).
 
Solenopsis invicta usually has an insane growth rate when conditions are right - six months should be enough for them to explode into the multiple thousands, unless you keep at 20°C or less (which massively slows their growth) there is clearly something wrong in general.


Ok thank you, I have a sand container ready, but now that it's only the queen and about 3 ants I don't know if I should just go ahead and move them in.

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#10 Offline Serafine - Posted January 19 2018 - 7:34 AM

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The number of ants doesn't really matter, you can put a test tube with just a queen into a box (or glass outworld or whatever you have available), you just won't see any ants outside until the colony has first workers (my Lasius niger queen left the tube when she got her first workers and took a significant nap from the sugar water feeder, it was kinda surprising to see her majesty outside).

 

I put my Camponotus into an outworld immediately (they came with 4 workers) and had no issues. Just put the food (and the sugar water/diluted honey/diluted maple syrup) close to the entrance and they'll be fine. In the wild they would have to forage a much larger area to get food anyway.

 

You should be aware though that Solenopsis invicta is an escape artists and once they've reached a reasonable size (which can happen very quickly when conditions are right) they will really test your barriers so it's best to put them into an outworld that is very escape-proof and can be expanded (plugged ports or pre-mounted tubing plugged with lots of cotton).


Edited by Serafine, January 19 2018 - 7:35 AM.

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#11 Offline nurbs - Posted January 19 2018 - 11:51 AM

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Wait a moment.. a six months old Solenopsis invicta colony had only 50 workers? I'm pretty sure they had issues before, usually these ants multiply with a speed beyond crazy.

 

 

Solenopsis invicta usually has an insane growth rate when conditions are right - six months should be enough for them to explode into the multiple thousands, unless you keep at 20°C or less (which massively slows their growth) there is clearly something wrong in general.

 

 

You should be aware though that Solenopsis invicta is an escape artists and once they've reached a reasonable size (which can happen very quickly when conditions are right) they will really test your barriers so it's best to put them into an outworld that is very escape-proof and can be expanded (plugged ports or pre-mounted tubing plugged with lots of cotton).

 

You always seem to have so much to say about S. invicta. Not just in this post, but in past posts. Is this all from your own personal experience in rearing them, or are you just spreading information that may or may not be true without citing actual sources? Just curious because you live in Germany, a country where this species has no foothold. Is your expertise in S. invicta simply a YouTube Google diploma sprinkled in with lots of assumptions and not actual firsthand experience?

 

OP: We would need more information from your end, as most everyone here is just making educated guesses. Some of the more common reasons why an entire colony would suddenly die off is food poisoning, like accidentally feeding them an apple with pesticide, or something in the air. Ants can be very sensitive to specific odors which can harm them. For example, if your area has been recently fumigated, even if the colony is not close, trace amounts of gaseous pesticides can harm them.


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#12 Offline swagman - Posted January 19 2018 - 12:33 PM

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Just curious because you live in Germany, a country where this species has no foothold. 

 

 

 

We don't have any restrictions regarding non native ant species. Not even for pest-ants. 


Edited by swagman, January 19 2018 - 12:37 PM.


#13 Offline nurbs - Posted January 19 2018 - 12:38 PM

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Just curious because you live in Germany, a country where this species has no foothold. 

 

 

We don't have any restrictions regarding non native ants in Germany. Not even for pest-ants.  

 

 

Yeah, we know :)


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#14 Offline Serafine - Posted January 19 2018 - 1:28 PM

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snip

It's a very well-known fact that Solenopsis invicta can grow very fast.
And every ant colony that grows very large is prone to escaping, especially if the ants themselves are rather small - that's true for fire ants just as much as any other ant (you'd be surprised how good Lasius niger is at escaping). So the advise isn't really species-specific, however for fire ants it makes even more sense to plan ahead than for, say, Lasius niger, because fire ants have a really painfull sting while the worst that can happen with Lasius niger when you work around to modify their outworld is lots of escapees.


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#15 Offline Aaron567 - Posted January 19 2018 - 3:38 PM

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S. invicta having 50 workers is not very unusual if they are fed just 1-2 times a week or less. In my experiences with them.



#16 Offline nurbs - Posted January 19 2018 - 3:57 PM

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S. invicta having 50 workers is not very unusual if they are fed just 1-2 times a week or less. In my experiences with them.


Correct, not unusual at all. It’s not just food but heat and humidity. They thrive in those conditions, and develop much slower without.

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#17 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 19 2018 - 4:20 PM

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Well now I'm basically starting over, I will move her in the main container... Yea now she has only 1 worker
left, she has a small pile of brood left.

Edited by AntPhycho, January 19 2018 - 4:27 PM.

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#18 Offline Serafine - Posted January 20 2018 - 2:41 AM

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S. invicta having 50 workers is not very unusual if they are fed just 1-2 times a week or less. In my experiences with them.


Correct, not unusual at all. It’s not just food but heat and humidity. They thrive in those conditions, and develop much slower without.

 

"Ants develop poorly when not kept under the right conditions and not fed properly" - wow, what a surprise. If I'd fed my Camponotus only once per week and didn't heat them they wouldn't have been able to breach a thousand workers within a year, sure, but I don't believe that it is the aim of antkeeping to keep ants under subpar conditions or starve them out of food. You surely wouldn't do that with your fish, shrimp, cats or birds either.


Edited by Serafine, January 20 2018 - 5:52 AM.

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#19 Offline AntPhycho - Posted January 20 2018 - 11:59 AM

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Ok, after closer inspection, the test tube was empty, could they have died from dehydration? It may help when I try to move her in the moist dirt, but that may have been the problem...

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#20 Offline dspdrew - Posted January 20 2018 - 12:29 PM

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S. invicta having 50 workers is not very unusual if they are fed just 1-2 times a week or less. In my experiences with them.


Correct, not unusual at all. It’s not just food but heat and humidity. They thrive in those conditions, and develop much slower without.

 

"Ants develop poorly when not kept under the right conditions and not fed properly" - wow, what a surprise. If I'd fed my Camponotus only once per week and didn't heat them they wouldn't have been able to breach a thousand workers within a year, sure, but I don't believe that it is the aim of antkeeping to keep ants under subpar conditions or starve them out of food. You surely wouldn't do that with your fish, shrimp, cats or birds either.

 

 

Who said anything about purposely not giving them the right conditions?


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