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Legal to collect the following?

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19 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:45 AM

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Hi!
I'm thinking about going somewhere, probably florida, this coming Summer. If I go to the right place at the right time, would it be legal to collect the following and bring them back over state borders?
-Cryptocercus (not in florida, but who knows)

-Terrestrial Isopods

-Centipedes

-Ant workers (Dorymyrmex, Odontomachus, Pogonomyrmex)

-Tailless Whip Scorp

-Spiders

-Mole crickets

-Velvet ants

-Forest roaches

-Scarab beetles (like june beetles)


Edited by Connectimyrmex, December 14 2017 - 4:48 AM.

Hawaiiant (Ben)

Keeper of
Miniature Labradoodle
Baby Wolf Spider
Mud Dauber wasp larvae
Ochetellus Glaber
Solenopsis Geminata
Brachymyrmex Obscurior
Cardiocondyla Emeryi
Tetramorium Bicarinatum
Plagiolepis Alluaudi
Anoplolepis Gracilipes
Technomyrmex Difficilis
Pheidole Megacephala
Aholehole fish
Cowrie snail
Sea Fan Worm
100+ sea squirts
Tree seedlings
Ghost Crab
Day Gecko
Small Fat Centipede
Endemic Lacewing larva
Vernal Pool shrimps

#2 Offline Mettcollsuss - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:52 AM

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You can't transport queens and males across state lines, but workers are fine. I'm not sure about the rest of the insects.



#3 Offline 123LordOfAnts123 - Posted December 14 2017 - 6:35 AM

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Nothing illegal about any of that. Just no collecting from state parks and such.

Edited by 123LordOfAnts123, December 14 2017 - 6:52 AM.


#4 Offline drtrmiller - Posted December 14 2017 - 7:50 AM

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How many times must this be repeated?

The plant pest law—which is cited as the reason why ants cannot be transported across state lines—defines a plant pest as any non-human organism which causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product.

But just because the USDA does not actively enforce the law to the letter (how could they?) does not make the spread of organisms to which the law would apply any more legal, from a purely technical standpoint.

Many of, if not all, the organisms you mentioned have complex relationships with plants. As an extreme, but nevertheless completely possible hypothetical, even an alien spider could displace native spiders, while also preferentially targeting certain bees and other pollinators, thereby having an indirect but damaging effect on one or more plants. The fact that, due to our incomplete scientific understanding of the universe and all its infinite possibilities, this outcome cannot be ruled out completely, and yet the law is worded in such a way as to make an astronomically improbable chance occurrence have the equal weight as a scenario in which the probability is significantly likely, just goes to show how badly the law was written, and that only scientists—not government bureaucrats—can be tasked with properly enforcing it.

With regards to sterile ant workers, even Pogonomyrmex workers sold in ant farms required a waiver by the USDA at one point. If one were advertising and shipping worker ants to customers all over the US, one would likely pop up on the USDA radar and be asked to apply for an exemption, as well. The law does not differentiate between organisms that can reproduce and ones that can't.

Edited by drtrmiller, December 14 2017 - 8:06 AM.

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byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
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ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#5 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 7:54 AM

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if you are taking a plan you need a permit and to clam them but if you are driving i think it is fine



#6 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 14 2017 - 9:30 AM

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How many times must this be repeated?

The plant pest law—which is cited as the reason why ants cannot be transported across state lines—defines a plant pest as any non-human organism which causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product.

But just because the USDA does not actively enforce the law to the letter (how could they?) does not make the spread of organisms to which the law would apply any more legal, from a purely technical standpoint.

Many of, if not all, the organisms you mentioned have complex relationships with plants. As an extreme, but nevertheless completely possible hypothetical, even an alien spider could displace native spiders, while also preferentially targeting certain bees and other pollinators, thereby having an indirect but damaging effect on one or more plants. The fact that, due to our incomplete scientific understanding of the universe and all its infinite possibilities, this outcome cannot be ruled out completely, and yet the law is worded in such a way as to make an astronomically improbable chance occurrence have the equal weight as a scenario in which the probability is significantly likely, just goes to show how badly the law was written, and that only scientists—not government bureaucrats—can be tasked with properly enforcing it.

With regards to sterile ant workers, even Pogonomyrmex workers sold in ant farms required a waiver by the USDA at one point. If one were advertising and shipping worker ants to customers all over the US, one would likely pop up on the USDA radar and be asked to apply for an exemption, as well. The law does not differentiate between organisms that can reproduce and ones that can't.

Okay, I was just clarifying, I didn't mean to bother you. 

I was confused about the "plant pest" relationship with rotting-wood species and predators. Now I (sort of) understand. 
So I can't collect anything? That kind of sucks, I really was interested in keeping a whip scorpion or seeing how an Odontomachus jaw works.


if you are taking a plan you need a permit and to clam them but if you are driving i think it is fine

I'm not really planning any of this out.

 

It's still illegal to transport animals over state lines no matter how you travel.


Edited by Connectimyrmex, December 14 2017 - 9:34 AM.

Hawaiiant (Ben)

Keeper of
Miniature Labradoodle
Baby Wolf Spider
Mud Dauber wasp larvae
Ochetellus Glaber
Solenopsis Geminata
Brachymyrmex Obscurior
Cardiocondyla Emeryi
Tetramorium Bicarinatum
Plagiolepis Alluaudi
Anoplolepis Gracilipes
Technomyrmex Difficilis
Pheidole Megacephala
Aholehole fish
Cowrie snail
Sea Fan Worm
100+ sea squirts
Tree seedlings
Ghost Crab
Day Gecko
Small Fat Centipede
Endemic Lacewing larva
Vernal Pool shrimps

#7 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 10:09 AM

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sorry but it is not legal to transport via plane as it is considered hazardous witch goes against DGT, and IOCA laws of IATA. ;)


Edited by Hunter, December 14 2017 - 10:26 AM.


#8 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 14 2017 - 10:42 AM

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EXACTLY, I wrote in my post above that it is illegal to carry plant pests over state borders no matter how you travel.


Hawaiiant (Ben)

Keeper of
Miniature Labradoodle
Baby Wolf Spider
Mud Dauber wasp larvae
Ochetellus Glaber
Solenopsis Geminata
Brachymyrmex Obscurior
Cardiocondyla Emeryi
Tetramorium Bicarinatum
Plagiolepis Alluaudi
Anoplolepis Gracilipes
Technomyrmex Difficilis
Pheidole Megacephala
Aholehole fish
Cowrie snail
Sea Fan Worm
100+ sea squirts
Tree seedlings
Ghost Crab
Day Gecko
Small Fat Centipede
Endemic Lacewing larva
Vernal Pool shrimps

#9 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 10:45 AM

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my bad i did not see that sorry



#10 Offline drtrmiller - Posted December 14 2017 - 11:09 AM

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Nobody is likely to bother you.


byFormica® is the manufacturer of the iconic nectar feeders and Sunburst Ant Nectar.
byFormica ant products always deliver consistent performance, convenience,
and reliability, making them among the most beloved ant foods and kit enjoyed by
ant keeping enthusiasts worldwide. For more information, visit www.byFormica.com.

#11 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 14 2017 - 3:50 PM

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Nobody is likely to bother you.

Me? I do get bothered a lot :P


Hawaiiant (Ben)

Keeper of
Miniature Labradoodle
Baby Wolf Spider
Mud Dauber wasp larvae
Ochetellus Glaber
Solenopsis Geminata
Brachymyrmex Obscurior
Cardiocondyla Emeryi
Tetramorium Bicarinatum
Plagiolepis Alluaudi
Anoplolepis Gracilipes
Technomyrmex Difficilis
Pheidole Megacephala
Aholehole fish
Cowrie snail
Sea Fan Worm
100+ sea squirts
Tree seedlings
Ghost Crab
Day Gecko
Small Fat Centipede
Endemic Lacewing larva
Vernal Pool shrimps

#12 Offline nurbs - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:54 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.


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#13 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:58 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.

you could collect a cactus to



#14 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:59 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.

LOL, nice. Definitely will collect a colony :P


Hawaiiant (Ben)

Keeper of
Miniature Labradoodle
Baby Wolf Spider
Mud Dauber wasp larvae
Ochetellus Glaber
Solenopsis Geminata
Brachymyrmex Obscurior
Cardiocondyla Emeryi
Tetramorium Bicarinatum
Plagiolepis Alluaudi
Anoplolepis Gracilipes
Technomyrmex Difficilis
Pheidole Megacephala
Aholehole fish
Cowrie snail
Sea Fan Worm
100+ sea squirts
Tree seedlings
Ghost Crab
Day Gecko
Small Fat Centipede
Endemic Lacewing larva
Vernal Pool shrimps

#15 Offline T.C. - Posted December 14 2017 - 5:02 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.


That's irresponsible to tell someone with no experience on rock keeping to just "grab up" any species.
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#16 Offline Martialis - Posted December 14 2017 - 5:08 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.


That's irresponsible to tell someone with no experience on rock keeping to just "grab up" any species.

 

 

Indeed. What iff he picks up a nonnative Ferrum species and just drops it somewhere else? Just think of the geological harm!


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#17 Offline gcsnelling - Posted December 14 2017 - 6:01 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.

you could collect a cactus to

 

 

Cactus are generally highly protected, collecting them would not be a wise idea.


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#18 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 6:10 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.

you could collect a cactus to

 

 

Cactus are generally highly protected, collecting them would not be a wise idea.

 

stick and a knife



#19 Offline T.C. - Posted December 14 2017 - 6:26 PM

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Rocks. You can collect rocks and bring them over the border. I used to collect rocks and minerals as a kid. Requires minimal care.

you could collect a cactus to
 
Cactus are generally highly protected, collecting them would not be a wise idea.

Yeah, ya know what. Just don't take anything back. And before you board the plane wipe your shoes.
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“If I am killed for simply living, let death be kinder than man.” -Althea Davis

#20 Offline Hunter - Posted December 14 2017 - 6:31 PM

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he might need to wipe his hands too






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