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Prenolepis - hibernate ...or nah


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13 replies to this topic

#1 Offline Skwiggledork - Posted December 10 2017 - 3:34 PM

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I keep reading contradictory information on Prenolepis imparis. Some people say they don't need to be hibernated other people say if where you come from gets snow everything needs to hibernate. Hoping to find out if there is a definitive answer. Just got my first snow storm for the year and up until now I had been photographing wild winter ants(not well, but trying). Current colony just laid some eggs a few days ago, maybe a week at most. Really hoping to be able to have a second year colony. I've read that getting them to continue laying eggs is difficult.



#2 Offline MegaMyrmex - Posted December 10 2017 - 4:47 PM

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I myself have been wondering the same thing. I caught myself a bunch of queen winter ants bit none made it since I kept disturbing them out of excitement. I guess based off of other's experience they're like honey pot ants "lite" since they're a bit more easier to care for and don't have full repletes but I would say try a couple dats to a week in hibernation and see how it goes, but if it's only a queen and no qorkers and she only has eggs or jist started laying, maybe delay the winter time ord try cooling her down to maybe 70 to 60° F and see how she fares.

Proverbs 6:6-8 New International Version (NIV)

Go to the ant, you sluggard;
    consider its ways and be wise!
It has no commander,
    no overseer or ruler,
yet it stores its provisions in summer
    and gathers its food at harvest.

 


#3 Offline 123LordOfAnts123 - Posted December 10 2017 - 5:00 PM

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For best results, ask the ants outside. Seriously.

There is a lot of variation in behavior even within ants of the same species, based almost entirely upon their location and the microclimate each colony experiences. Assuming you collected a species nearby, if a wild colony of it is inactive based upon the weather your area is experiencing, chances are yours should be to.

Prenolepis imparis is indeed an interesting species. Or group of species, I should say, as this is a very wide ranging ant with high amounts of morphological variations based upon geography that likely points to there being multiple species currently under the guise of a single one. Taxonomically speaking, such a case is a common occurrence for many ants where the effort has yet to be made to painstakingly separate them.

As for your question, this species doesn’t hibernate per say in regards to most of the temperate ants commonly kept. They’ve evolved to occupy the empty niche left in the wake of other species whom retire during cold weather. This means that in many areas they’re “active” during the cool temperatures between late Fall and early Spring - a period when most would hibernate their captive ants. But due to their normally deep nests, they likely never experience temperature extremes on the surface, and the colony itself undoubtedly exists in a rather stable environment year round, at least in some parts of their range. Nests in Florida have measured in at more than 9 feet deep! They do, however, require cold temperatures to forage. In Massachusetts and Missouri, their preferred foraging temperature is from 35 to 55 degrees, though activity occasionally takes place as low as 26 degrees to slightly above 60. If temperatures are too low, they’ll probably retreat to the nest and wait it out, but will be back at it as soon as the weather eases its grip.

Here in Central Florida, one of their most southernly occurrences, I’ve observed foraging in temperatures as high as 80 degrees in the shade, and it of course never gets cold enough here to halt their search for food. Activity typically takes place starting in November and lasting till April. In their more northerly ranges, colonies may be active above ground for most of the year except during the hottest parts.

Normally, after a season(s) spent foraging, they exhibit their bloated corpulent state from which they derived their namesake. It is this store of food from which the first and only brood is produced every year during the period when their above ground activity ceases. As only one batch of workers is produced a year, growth is painfully slow, though keeping polygynous colonies may help offset this. Some nests have been excavated with over a dozen queens.

How all these behavioral and morphological adaptions translate into their proper care in captivity is a very good question. Fact remains that while this is a very common species with a predictable flight period and conspicuous queens (lots of people keep them) hardly anyone has succeeded in rearing a colony past its first few years. Two likely reasons may explain why. One may be that few colonies are provided with proper temperatures and seasonal variations to accommodate their highly cyclical lifestyle, thereby reducing brood production, queen and worker health, and food receptivity. And two, their very slow growth rate means that most people lose interest in them before they reach any appreciable numbers.

Edited by 123LordOfAnts123, December 10 2017 - 5:05 PM.

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#4 Offline T.C. - Posted December 10 2017 - 5:36 PM

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Because of P.Imparis behavior to dig chambers so deep, they don't ever hibernate to the best of my knowledge. The few feet down where they are, doesn't get cold.
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#5 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted December 10 2017 - 5:56 PM

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This is a strange question, because there is a strange answer. Prenolepis imparis regularly forages in cold temperatures. You can provide a slightly cold temperature to accelerate foraging. So you technically don't have them hibernate, but you keep them in hibernation temperatures.


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#6 Offline noebl1 - Posted December 10 2017 - 5:57 PM

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Because of P.Imparis behavior to dig chambers so deep, they don't ever hibernate to the best of my knowledge. The few feet down where they are, doesn't get cold.

 

That's my understanding as well, but not an expert.  Doubt they see a lot of temperature fluctuations at 3m.

 

From Antwiki:

"The nests of P. imparis are exceedingly deep with no chambers found shallower than 60 centimeters below the ground surface and going down as far as 3.6 m (Tschinkel 1987)"



#7 Offline MegaMyrmex - Posted December 10 2017 - 6:15 PM

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How would you keep the cold, though? You can't keep them in the fridge or they might escape and keeping an ice pack on their nest would be too tedious

Proverbs 6:6-8 New International Version (NIV)

Go to the ant, you sluggard;
    consider its ways and be wise!
It has no commander,
    no overseer or ruler,
yet it stores its provisions in summer
    and gathers its food at harvest.

 


#8 Offline 123LordOfAnts123 - Posted December 10 2017 - 8:03 PM

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How would you keep the cold, though? You can't keep them in the fridge or they might escape and keeping an ice pack on their nest would be too tedious


Air conditioning + a room cooler? There is no easy (or at least cheap) answer. There’s a reason most fail with this species.

#9 Offline noebl1 - Posted December 11 2017 - 4:18 AM

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I'm experimenting with a passive water cooled setup for P. imparis.  I have a peltier cooler/heater controller, a dual sided heat sink, with a closed loop of water, with a spool of tubing within a reservoir of water below the ants to cool them (well no ants yet, just experimenting at this point).  The controller can keep it very accurate, however, found the small heatsink and radiator unit were way too undersized so the heat from the pump was driving it warmer than 70F. I have a larger heatsink and fan setup coming in from Aliexpress within the next few weeks that's "designed for cooling fish tanks" that I was going to modify to increase efficiency.  I'll post if it works/doesn't work.

 

The other option I was thinking was a cheap peltier based chiller fridge (the little ones people can fit a few cans in).  They usually aren't cold enough in the average house to keep things "ice cold", but 68F should be well within their control range.  Drill some holes for tubing for their outworld, etc.  May not work in reality, but would kept temp fairly precise.



#10 Offline Goldsystem - Posted December 13 2017 - 1:21 PM

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I always hibernate mine, they have their third batch of eggs now too so it seems like it’s working

#11 Offline noebl1 - Posted December 14 2017 - 4:21 AM

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I always hibernate mine, they have their third batch of eggs now too so it seems like it’s working

 

What temp do you keep them during hibernation?  What time of year and how long? Thanks!



#12 Offline Goldsystem - Posted December 14 2017 - 9:56 AM

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I always hibernate mine, they have their third batch of eggs now too so it seems like it’s working


What temp do you keep them during hibernation? What time of year and how long? Thanks!

I’ll have to check the exact temperature later today, I’ve kept them in hibernation for around 3 months each year.
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#13 Offline Reevak - Posted December 14 2017 - 2:12 PM

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I'm planning on giving mine a 2 month hibernation (roughly) and in the warmer part of my mini fridge and I'm hoping that works



#14 Offline noebl1 - Posted December 14 2017 - 3:07 PM

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I always hibernate mine, they have their third batch of eggs now too so it seems like it’s working


What temp do you keep them during hibernation? What time of year and how long? Thanks!

I’ll have to check the exact temperature later today, I’ve kept them in hibernation for around 3 months each year.

 

 

TBH I had my doubts about hibernating them, however, have admit that it's hard to argue that you had them re-lay and gone more than one season.  That's obviously the biggest hurdle with them compared to other species.






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