53 replies to this topic

[Serafine]

All information put into that discord will be lost. Questions, pictures, answers, etc. When I go to research the same thing it is going to take me to this or another forum. Like I stated, all chat is useless. Any information put in any of them will be lost. So they are just for fun. Of course they still are good for a quick question, but that frequently can be answered here as well. I won't put great detail in my answers in chat however, because no one else will ever be able to see it.

The information isn't all lost. The Discord is a medium to PASS knowledge, not to STORE it. And it makes a pretty good job at that.

[T.C.]

 

also from what i have seen, you like to ignore the arguments used by people against what you say, and then respond with something unrelated to their message/argument. I'm going to ask that you don't do that to me. thanks

Haha, what?  Where did that come from?

 

Let me tell you something, I go into chat everyday all day while I am at work doing whatever. We all answer questions, but there comes a time when we just stop because there is so many. Same thing on the discord. I also answer questions there and as do others like Jash. But once I have been talking with others and answering their ant questions for the past 2 hours, I just but can't help change the topic for a while. None of us are being paid? You should be happy there is people to answer your questions here on the forum and on discord. I go around several forums a day, answering questions about ants and other bugs. That's what I spend a few hours of my day doing, and I'm not gonna lie it gets old. The discord of course is going to answer a few more questions, because it doesn't have the forums. If they didn't mostly focus on ants then it would just be general chat. Like I said, I spend ALOT of times answering questions. Although I generally enjoy it, I prefer to put my answers where others are going to be able to benefit from it in the future as well.

[Reacker]

Some loosely organized thoughts on the matter:

 

I feel like a lot of you guys that are so against Discord have never tried it. I started using Discord around January for a few different subjects and I was very pleasantly surprised by how versatile it is. I had resisted joining because everything about it just sounds like a new Teamspeak or Skype which I had no interest in but I've actually found that it's not simply just another chat application. I've been in Discord servers with hundreds and hundreds of members that are run much more like a forum than a chatroom, and in fact most of the heavily populated Discord servers I've been in are better moderated than this forum. I've encountered such large servers that have literally no presence outside of discord. Hundreds of people organically forming a community exclusively inside of discord that works at least as well as any forum would. It's quite interesting actually!

 

Discord servers can have as many different voice and chat channels as needed for various different categories, just like subforums. If you made a discord server for this forum you could translate all of the subforums to discord channels nearly one for one without issue. Additionally, because messages are stored perpetually you can scroll up to find what you need pretty easily (the search actually works also). While I haven't been in any ant discords I readily believe that you could get very good help in a populated discord.

 

Despite how cool Discord is I wouldn't advocate for the replacement of a forum with a discord server. Discord servers are still terrible for long form content like large posts and ongoing threads such as journals. They are as far as I'm aware not indexable by Google and so their content lives and dies as the startup that makes Discord does. Similarly the forum chat does not have the potential to replace the functionality of a Discord even if Drew went out of his way to purge it of the nonsense it's currently filled with 80% of the time.

 

Rather than thinking of Discord as drop in replacement for the chat, think of it as a hybrid between forums team speak. I see no reason why they can't coexist.

[Reevak]

That's what I spend a few hours of my day doing, and I'm not gonna lie it gets old.

 

I'm sure it does, but that doesn't mean the people who were there should've just ignored me when it only would have taken a few seconds to type a response.

 

The discord of course is going to answer a few more questions, because it doesn't have the forums. If they didn't mostly focus on ants then it would just be general chat. 

The discord answers a lot more than just "a few more questions" compared to the chat here. And you're right in saying that it makes sense because the discord server is chat based and revolving around ants, while Formiculture is not (since its a forum and all).

 

Also, I see that you no longer think the "if our chat is useless, (which it is) that makes discord too" statement is true.

Edited by Reevak, November 3 2017 - 12:52 PM.

[T.C.]

No, it's still useless due to the fact that all the information will be lost. That's just my opinion. Also, discord is fine. I like the discord server, and the person running it. However it's inconvenient for me to use.

[Reacker]

No, it's still useless due to the fact that all the information will be lost. That's just my opinion. Also, discord is fine. I like the discord server, and the person running it. However it's inconvenient for me to use.

Not everything piece of information conveyed from one person to another needs to be archived in perpetuity. Sometimes you just want an answer and to go on with your day rather than typing out a long form post fit for a forum.

Edited by Reacker, November 3 2017 - 1:17 PM.

[T.C.]

I suppose if you put it that way... makes a little more sense. But I would still prefer to respond to forums where I can link someone to the answer when they ask the same thing rather than retyping it. I suppose chat is good for casual ant discussions and noobs, to ask small questions. I have answered those questions on this chat since day one. Retyped, the same answers, multiple times.

[dermy]

 

 

 

Chat rooms have traditionally been a place for people to socialize.  It sounds like you don't know how chat rooms are used and so you're trying to turn one into a technical support chat for antkeeping, like this is eBay or something.

I was just saying that when I asked a simple question in the chat in the past, I would be ignored. Just because its usually used to socialize doesn't mean you should ignore a new antkeeper asking a simple question. 

 

What the heck. We aren't 24/7 ant support. We come in chat to enjoy ourselves, not answer your questions on command. I need you to pay attention the following key words....

 

We have a Forum for that friend! You know this thing you just posted in. You can also get your questions answered here!   Yeah, you read that right! Just pick the correct subforum and I promise multiple replies within a few hour period.

 

No one is saying anything bad about discord. But remember if our chat is useless, (which it is) that makes discord too. Chat is for socialization.

 

You clearly aren't following me. I understand that the forum is better for asking questions because people don't ignore you there. What you don't understand is that my question could have easily been answered with only 5 seconds of typing, but instead it was completely ignored by members of Formiculture that were experienced ant keepers. If you think it is okay to ignore a new ant keeper asking a simple question then fine, but I don't think its okay. It's annoying to be ignored. Also you say that you come to the chat to enjoy yourselves and not answer questions "on command," but it really is not that big of a deal to answer someones question. I wasn't demanding answers, I was seeking help from people I thought could help me. And I was right in thinking they could help me, just wrong in thinking they would. No one even said "Make a post about it" or anything. They just decided not to respond at all.  And if every new antkeeper made a new post about every little thing then the forum could easily become flooded with simple and repetitive questions/posts. And I KNOW about the search feature. I've used it but sometimes you can't find what you are looking for because the questions/information has been worded differently in the past. 

 

Another thing I would like to mention is that you seem to like saying "no one is insulting Discord" and then insult it right after. This chat being useless does not make the Discord chat useless for one simple reason. Questions are actually answered in the Discord server.

 

(also from what i have seen, you like to ignore the arguments used by people against what you say, and then respond with something unrelated to their message/argument. I'm going to ask that you don't do that to me. thanks)

 

Just be glad this isn't a forum where either someone goes "oh no you spelt that word wrong!" or "we have archives please use them I think I saw an answer to your question there, somewhere" and then the thread just turns into a big "well maybe you shouldn't keep dermestid beetles since obviously you don't have the patience to use an archive from 2003-2010 which had no "advance search" feature] that last one really bugged me.... or people that know stuff and won't help Newbies because "we are too good to help the likes of someone like you". I'm sure Formiculture is better than the three examples I gave here trust me, I've been in all three situations.

[Reacker]

^

 

Formiculture isn't perfect by any means but it's substantially better than what came before it.

[Serafine]

I understand that the forum is better for asking questions because people don't ignore you there.

Um... evaluating userbase vs answers given most people in fact DO ignore you. Most people don't even read you topic/post.
 

What you don't understand is that my question could have easily been answered with only 5 seconds of typing, but instead it was completely ignored by members of Formiculture that were experienced ant keepers. If you think it is okay to ignore a new ant keeper asking a simple question then fine, but I don't think its okay.

See, you are not entitled to get an answer, neither you should expect to get one immediately. The Discord has just a vastly larger and more pro-active userbase than the forum chat.
Simply by statistics the chance you'd get help on a server with 600+ participants and specific places to ask questions (so they don't get lost instantly) is much higher than on a single-channel chat with 20 participants at best during most of the day. Also we have some very courageous people on the Discord who have no issues answering the same newbie question for the 1000th time (which is a fairly unique skill in itself).
 

Formiculture isn't perfect by any means but it's substantially better than what came before it.

It definitely is. I don't think there is any english-speaking forum that even remotely compares to it.

[Kevin]

I believe Discord is more interactive and involved over the chatroom, however it's also not formiculture affiliated and it's not run the same as the chatroom here. You'd have to try it out to see if you can handle some parts of it that may be too toxic but overall it's actually very useful.

[Reevak]

Just be glad this isn't a forum where either someone goes "oh no you spelt that word wrong!" or "we have archives please use them I think I saw an answer to your question there, somewhere" and then the thread just turns into a big "well maybe you shouldn't keep dermestid beetles since obviously you don't have the patience to use an archive from 2003-2010 which had no "advance search" feature] that last one really bugged me.... or people that know stuff and won't help Newbies because "we are too good to help the likes of someone like you". I'm sure Formiculture is better than the three examples I gave here trust me, I've been in all three situations.

What you don't understand is that my question could have easily been answered with only 5 seconds of typing, but instead it was completely ignored by members of Formiculture that were experienced ant keepers. If you think it is okay to ignore a new ant keeper asking a simple question then fine, but I don't think its okay.

See, you are not entitled to get an answer, neither you should expect to get one immediately. The Discord has just a vastly larger and more pro-active userbase than the forum chat.
Simply by statistics the chance you'd get help on a server with 600+ participants and specific places to ask questions (so they don't get lost instantly) is much higher than on a single-channel chat with 20 participants at best during most of the day. Also we have some very courageous people on the Discord who have no issues answering the same newbie question for the 1000th time (which is a fairly unique skill in itself).

I never said I was entitled to get an answer immediately. I was just upset that people who had the answers to my simple questions chose to ignored me instead of responding (which would not have been difficult at all). These people were there. Its not like I was expected an answer from people who weren't there. I was ignored. I also never said I wasn't glad that formiculture existed, or that it was bad or anything like that. I was just saying that the chatroom portion of it is almost entirely useless for getting any sort of help (in my experience). Which is a very true statement.

 

Saying "just be glad" or "you should be happy" only tells me that it has been worse in the past. Just because something is better than its predecessors doesn't mean you shouldn't always try to make it better than it is now.

Edited by Reevak, November 4 2017 - 11:03 AM.

[T.C.]

Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I do agree with Serafine. He has made a good point here. We generally only have like 20 peopke in chat, so the few that are able to answer may just been exhausted from answering or are doing other things. Discord has hundreds. Surely you can see why I prefer to respond in forums?

[Reevak]

Can't believe I'm about to say this, but I do agree with Serafine. He has made a good point here. We generally only have like 20 peopke in chat, so the few that are able to answer may just been exhausted from answering or are doing other things. Discord has hundreds. Surely you can see why I prefer to respond in forums?

I see why you would prefer to, but I seriously doubt that you would have ignored me if you were there when I was asking the questions (I don't think you were there at least). Also, the Discord server has hundreds of members but the number of people online and looking at it varies at any given time. Sometimes there are 5 people on, sometimes 15, sometimes 1, it largely depends on the time of day. And the number of people online on discord doesnt mean they are in the ant discord at that time. Most of the people have discord open but are in other discord servers or arent using it at all.