61 replies to this topic

[Hunter]

its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

[Hunter]

its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

but i can't have that

[drtrmiller]

The law is exclusive to "plant pests." Unless you have the world's first vegetarian snake, the law we speak of in reference to ants does not apply.

[Reevak]

The law is exclusive to "plant pests." Unless you have the world's first vegetarian snake, the law we speak of in reference to ants does not apply.

Are all ants considered plant pests? Also, would aphid tending cause them to be considered plant pests in a sense as they have a symbiotic relationship with a plant pest?

[drtrmiller]

The law states a plant pest is any non-human organism that causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product. The argument against ants with relationships to aphids or other sap-sucking homopterans would be that the ants are protecting the natural plant pest from predators, and therefore playing an indirect role in damaging the plant.

[Canadian anter]

its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

Leafcutters are invasive in certain parts of Florida. Here in Canada we have "difficulty levels" for invasive potential of a species and therefore the difficulty to obtain a permit for a certain species. First, there's the potential damage caused, and then the possibilty of establishment.

[Reevak]

The law states a plant pest is any non-human organism that causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product. The argument against ants with relationships to aphids or other sap-sucking homopterans would be that the ants are protecting the natural plant pest from predators, and therefore playing an indirect role in damaging the plant.

Okay thanks for the explaination

[Serafine]

Ok, I don't know if invicta are in Virginia, I don't live there.

Solenopsis invicta has a few bridgeheads in Virginia but could not manage to get a large foothold so far. It's probably only a matter of time though until they overrun that area as well.

[gcsnelling]

Another thing to consider is that sending the ants "brown bagged or boxed" would make it a Lacey act violation.

[Batspiderfish]

Asides from straight-up crop and property damage, ants are also labeled as plant pests because non-native ant lineages disrupt native ant/seed dispersal relationships and (particularly if they are from Myrmicinae) accelerate the dispersal of non-native plants in exchange. Ants are powerful ecological actors.

[drtrmiller]

Another thing to consider is that sending the ants "brown bagged or boxed" would make it a Lacey act violation.

Regulatory enforcement actions such as civil fines and confiscation are the most likely outcome, and even these can easily be appealed, given that the burden of proof falls on the government to prove that sufficient empirical scientific research exists for the Secretary of Agriculture to justify a specific organism that was allegedly transported illegally into interstate commerce falls under the enforcement authority of the USDA by virtue of the PPA statute. Only once that burden is met, along with other factors, can the US criminal code you referenced be considered as a prosecutable offense.

Asides from straight-up crop and property damage, ants are also labeled as plant pests because non-native ant lineages disrupt native ant/seed dispersal relationships and (particularly if they are from Myrmicinae) accelerate the dispersal of non-native plants in exchange. Ants are powerful ecological actors.

It's really difficult to take concerns of ecological alarmists seriously when there's so little research that is relevant to the types of non-invasive, widespread ants most US antkeepers would be happy to trade, if given the chance to do so. The fact that these types of conversations are so broad sweeping and commonly lacking in evidence entirely is even more reason to disregard them as unsubstantiated, sensationalist rhetoric.

Edited by drtrmiller, October 19 2017 - 4:28 PM.

[Aaron567]

 

its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

Leafcutters are invasive in certain parts of Florida. Here in Canada we have "difficulty levels" for invasive potential of a species and therefore the difficulty to obtain a permit for a certain species. First, there's the potential damage caused, and then the possibilty of establishment.

 

 

I've never heard of leacutters being introduced to Florida and I can't find it anywhere, can you link something? I'm really curious 

[FeedTheAnts]

I like what nice little non heated discussion this has turned into

[Batspiderfish]

http://rspb.royalsoc...142846.full.pdf

[FeedTheAnts]

http://rspb.royalsoc...142846.full.pdf

Interesting... where on earth do you find these things, and who spends time making this kind of research paper. Intriguing though. 

Edited by TennesseeAnts, October 20 2017 - 6:47 AM.

[ultraex2]

Not sure how this applies to moving ants across state lin

 

http://rspb.royalsoc...142846.full.pdf

 

Not sure how this applies to moving native ants to a place that they're already native in and not planning on releasing them.

 

All the article is really proving is that M. Rubra (in their tests) moves around seeds more than other types of ants and then tries to go on to say that any ants in general "could be major drivers of ecological change worldwide."

 

For an article to be relevant in this thread, it would need to prove that an ant species that's native in both states causes more seed dispersal when it's introduced to the other state.

[Batspiderfish]

You might notice that the conversation has shifted superfluously to the categorization of ants as plant pests, because the answer to this thread was explained in one line, in the first response.

The burden of proof is still on those who wish to change the laws.

Edited by Batspiderfish, October 20 2017 - 9:52 AM.

[B2-Bomber-Ants]

I agree with the fact that if your ants are regional, then you are ok, State lines are Imaginary, and this so called law probably hasn't been enforced in a very long time if ever to the average ant keeper, as proof would be too costly for law enforcement agencies to want to undergo. The bigger issue would be just to be careful not to release a non-native species outside of its regional area. 

[Bugdaddy]

You stop at the state line, let her crawl over the state line, then capture her again.



Note: I'm just kidding. Pretty sure that's still illegal

[sgheaton]

"Officer, I'm telling you, that cart full of heroin simply rolled over onto my property!"