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What are the laws regarding moving ants across state lines when they are native to that location?


56 replies to this topic

#41 Offline Hunter - Posted October 19 2017 - 6:27 AM

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its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather



#42 Offline Hunter - Posted October 19 2017 - 6:31 AM

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its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

but i can't have that



#43 Offline drtrmiller - Posted October 19 2017 - 8:10 AM

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The law is exclusive to "plant pests." Unless you have the world's first vegetarian snake, the law we speak of in reference to ants does not apply.


#44 Offline Reevak - Posted October 19 2017 - 8:30 AM

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The law is exclusive to "plant pests." Unless you have the world's first vegetarian snake, the law we speak of in reference to ants does not apply.

Are all ants considered plant pests? Also, would aphid tending cause them to be considered plant pests in a sense as they have a symbiotic relationship with a plant pest?


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#45 Offline drtrmiller - Posted October 19 2017 - 8:41 AM

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The law states a plant pest is any non-human organism that causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product. The argument against ants with relationships to aphids or other sap-sucking homopterans would be that the ants are protecting the natural plant pest from predators, and therefore playing an indirect role in damaging the plant.
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#46 Offline Canadian anter - Posted October 19 2017 - 9:26 AM

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its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

Leafcutters are invasive in certain parts of Florida. Here in Canada we have "difficulty levels" for invasive potential of a species and therefore the difficulty to obtain a permit for a certain species. First, there's the potential damage caused, and then the possibilty of establishment.



#47 Offline Reevak - Posted October 19 2017 - 10:35 AM

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The law states a plant pest is any non-human organism that causes or can potentially cause direct or indirect damage or disease to any plant or plant product. The argument against ants with relationships to aphids or other sap-sucking homopterans would be that the ants are protecting the natural plant pest from predators, and therefore playing an indirect role in damaging the plant.

Okay thanks for the explaination

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#48 Offline Serafine - Posted October 19 2017 - 10:37 AM

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Ok, I don't know if invicta are in Virginia, I don't live there.

Solenopsis invicta has a few bridgeheads in Virginia but could not manage to get a large foothold so far. It's probably only a matter of time though until they overrun that area as well.


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#49 Offline gcsnelling - Posted October 19 2017 - 2:26 PM

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Another thing to consider is that sending the ants "brown bagged or boxed" would make it a Lacey act violation.



#50 Offline Batspiderfish - Posted October 19 2017 - 3:03 PM

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Asides from straight-up crop and property damage, ants are also labeled as plant pests because non-native ant lineages disrupt native ant/seed dispersal relationships and (particularly if they are from Myrmicinae) accelerate the dispersal of non-native plants in exchange. Ants are powerful ecological actors.


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If you've enjoyed using my expertise and identifications, please do not create undue ecological risk by releasing your ants. The environment which we keep our pet insects is alien and oftentimes unsanitary, so ensure that wild populations stay safe by giving your ants the best care you can manage for the rest of their lives, as we must do with any other pet.

 

Exotic ants are for those who think that vibrant diversity is something you need to pay money to see. It is illegal to transport live ants across state lines.

 

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#51 Offline drtrmiller - Posted October 19 2017 - 4:12 PM

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Another thing to consider is that sending the ants "brown bagged or boxed" would make it a Lacey act violation.


Regulatory enforcement actions such as civil fines and confiscation are the most likely outcome, and even these can easily be appealed, given that the burden of proof falls on the government to prove that sufficient empirical scientific research exists for the Secretary of Agriculture to justify a specific organism that was allegedly transported illegally into interstate commerce falls under the enforcement authority of the USDA by virtue of the PPA statute. Only once that burden is met, along with other factors, can the US criminal code you referenced be considered as a prosecutable offense.

Asides from straight-up crop and property damage, ants are also labeled as plant pests because non-native ant lineages disrupt native ant/seed dispersal relationships and (particularly if they are from Myrmicinae) accelerate the dispersal of non-native plants in exchange. Ants are powerful ecological actors.


It's really difficult to take concerns of ecological alarmists seriously when there's so little research that is relevant to the types of non-invasive, widespread ants most US antkeepers would be happy to trade, if given the chance to do so. The fact that these types of conversations are so broad sweeping and commonly lacking in evidence entirely is even more reason to disregard them as unsubstantiated, sensationalist rhetoric.

Edited by drtrmiller, October 19 2017 - 4:28 PM.

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#52 Offline Aaron567 - Posted October 19 2017 - 4:36 PM

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its still dumb i don't think leafcutter ants will be invasive eather

Leafcutters are invasive in certain parts of Florida. Here in Canada we have "difficulty levels" for invasive potential of a species and therefore the difficulty to obtain a permit for a certain species. First, there's the potential damage caused, and then the possibilty of establishment.

 

 

I've never heard of leacutters being introduced to Florida and I can't find it anywhere, can you link something? I'm really curious 


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#53 Offline TennesseeAnts - Posted October 19 2017 - 4:44 PM

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I like what nice little non heated discussion this has turned into :)


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#54 Offline Batspiderfish - Posted October 19 2017 - 5:54 PM

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http://rspb.royalsoc...142846.full.pdf


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If you've enjoyed using my expertise and identifications, please do not create undue ecological risk by releasing your ants. The environment which we keep our pet insects is alien and oftentimes unsanitary, so ensure that wild populations stay safe by giving your ants the best care you can manage for the rest of their lives, as we must do with any other pet.

 

Exotic ants are for those who think that vibrant diversity is something you need to pay money to see. It is illegal to transport live ants across state lines.

 

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#55 Offline TennesseeAnts - Posted October 20 2017 - 6:46 AM

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Interesting... where on earth do you find these things, and who spends time making this kind of research paper. Intriguing though. 


Edited by TennesseeAnts, October 20 2017 - 6:47 AM.

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#56 Offline ultraex2 - Posted October 20 2017 - 8:51 AM

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Not sure how this applies to moving ants across state lin

 

 

Not sure how this applies to moving native ants to a place that they're already native in and not planning on releasing them.

 

All the article is really proving is that M. Rubra (in their tests) moves around seeds more than other types of ants and then tries to go on to say that any ants in general "could be major drivers of ecological change worldwide."

 

For an article to be relevant in this thread, it would need to prove that an ant species that's native in both states causes more seed dispersal when it's introduced to the other state.



#57 Offline Batspiderfish - Posted October 20 2017 - 9:50 AM

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You might notice that the conversation has shifted superfluously to the categorization of ants as plant pests, because the answer to this thread was explained in one line, in the first response.

The burden of proof is still on those who wish to change the laws.


Edited by Batspiderfish, October 20 2017 - 9:52 AM.

If you've enjoyed using my expertise and identifications, please do not create undue ecological risk by releasing your ants. The environment which we keep our pet insects is alien and oftentimes unsanitary, so ensure that wild populations stay safe by giving your ants the best care you can manage for the rest of their lives, as we must do with any other pet.

 

Exotic ants are for those who think that vibrant diversity is something you need to pay money to see. It is illegal to transport live ants across state lines.

 

----

Black lives still matter.





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