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On Prenolepis Egg Laying


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#1 Offline Bracchymyrmex - Posted October 8 2017 - 2:18 PM

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With our six or so Prenolepis colonies coming out of estivation (many with north of 30 workers), I'm beginning to worry that the queens won't lay their second batch of eggs. Anyone have any success with second-year Prenolepis colonies? 

 

We're also planning on combining two of these colonies as they were smaller in numbers than the others. 



#2 Offline Reevak - Posted October 8 2017 - 5:22 PM

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I only started ant keeping this year but I have over 11 Prenolepis imparis queens split into 8 different colonies. I planned on testing several things in an attempt to trigger an egg laying cycle after hibernation. I'm going to make a post on it soon probably stating what I will test, and then after hibernation I will show the tests' results.



#3 Offline Mettcollsuss - Posted October 8 2017 - 5:30 PM

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I'm very interested in this, as I'm going to start keeping P. imparis, and I've heard that they're difficult to get past the second year.



#4 Offline Goldsystem - Posted October 9 2017 - 7:53 AM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches

Edited by Goldsystem, October 9 2017 - 7:53 AM.

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#5 Offline Connectimyrmex - Posted October 9 2017 - 8:05 AM

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I'm also pretty interested. My favorite ants from back in Hawaii laid eggs in batches.


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#6 Offline Bracchymyrmex - Posted October 9 2017 - 3:35 PM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches

 

Have you found that these girls require any special conditions or care in order to lay their next "batch"?



#7 Offline T.C. - Posted October 9 2017 - 3:50 PM

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I'm honestly leaning towards perhaps no hibernation at all. I seen this thought posted by another member, and I looked into it. Colonies in the wild have chambers that go down several feet well past freezing temperatures to the point where it wouldn't be really cold at all.

Food for thought.
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#8 Offline noebl1 - Posted October 9 2017 - 4:09 PM

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I'm honestly leaning towards perhaps no hibernation at all. I seen this thought posted by another member, and I looked into it. Colonies in the wild have chambers that go down several feet well past freezing temperatures to the point where it wouldn't be really cold at all.

Food for thought.

 

 

I read the same thing... I wouldn't be surprised if they don't go int hibernation, however, they may not feed much except for repletes.  Unlike surface ants like Temnothorax, Camponotus, etc, they probably rarely see freeze temps where their nest is.  From the article that was posted around here a few times, I recall it said they also moved around the nest through the year based on temps and estivation state.

 

I was getting worried that my first year ones haven't relaid, however, considering they didn't lay until May after first flights, it may not be too unusual.  I have my last one for this season about to eclose soon, as I type this I see the queen moving around the last pupae (why it's her and not a worker, no idea...)  


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#9 Offline Goldsystem - Posted October 9 2017 - 4:41 PM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches


Have you found that these girls require any special conditions or care in order to lay their next "batch"?

I hibernated them in December and pulled them out in February, idk if that was what triggered egg laying but it seemed to have worked. I plan on hibernating them sooner than December this year though. And give them protein, for some reason some people think they don't need as much protien as other ants but they do! I have seen journals where the ants became canabilistic due to a lack of protine being fed to them. Hopefully that information helps :)
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#10 Offline Bracchymyrmex - Posted October 9 2017 - 6:34 PM

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I'm honestly leaning towards perhaps no hibernation at all. I seen this thought posted by another member, and I looked into it. Colonies in the wild have chambers that go down several feet well past freezing temperatures to the point where it wouldn't be really cold at all.

Food for thought.

 

 

I hibernated them in December and pulled them out in February, idk if that was what triggered egg laying but it seemed to have worked. I plan on hibernating them sooner than December this year though. And give them protein, for some reason some people think they don't need as much protien as other ants but they do! I have seen journals where the ants became canabilistic due to a lack of protine being fed to them. Hopefully that information helps :)

 

 

Thanks for the tips. Perhaps a shorter (2-3 months) hibernation at around 60° F and periodic feeding with is what will do it.


Edited by Bracchymyrmex, October 9 2017 - 6:35 PM.


#11 Offline Reevak - Posted October 10 2017 - 3:01 AM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches

Do you know what temperature you hibernated them at? Also, have yours laid 3 batches of eggs ever (including the nanitic batch) or was that just this year?

#12 Offline Mettcollsuss - Posted October 10 2017 - 3:35 AM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches


Have you found that these girls require any special conditions or care in order to lay their next "batch"?

I hibernated them in December and pulled them out in February, idk if that was what triggered egg laying but it seemed to have worked. I plan on hibernating them sooner than December this year though. And give them protein, for some reason some people think they don't need as much protien as other ants but they do! I have seen journals where the ants became canabilistic due to a lack of protine being fed to them. Hopefully that information helps :)

 

I thought that they hibernated in the summer, and December-February sure sounds like winter to me.



#13 Offline noebl1 - Posted October 10 2017 - 4:02 AM

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I know Randee on here didn't hibernate his P. imparis last year, and he sent me an email back in early March after what he said was a "tremendously long break" they finally laid eggs.  Unfortunately he's pretty crazy busy with work, so haven't heard from him for a couple months so not sure short term if he saw any negative/positive impact to not hibernating.

 

"During the warmest months of the year, nest entrances are sealed and the colony enters an estivation period with no presence aboveground. Seasonal foraging activity and estivation of Prenolepis imparis varies with latitude, with colonies in the northern part of the range being active throughout the year with the exception of the summer months (Talbot 1943). "

Source: https://edis.ifas.uf...IN/IN116800.pdf

 

Here's the older PDF from a study in 1987 which I think has been feeding a lot of the later articles: http://www.bio.fsu.e...ions/1987-3.pdf

 

Location of P. imparis does look to be a factor for behaviour a bit.   On page 146 (page 4 of the PDF), there's a chart that says the Florida P. imparis seem to lay in the Sept time frame in "a single pulse of brood."  Not sure if lines up with other locations or not, especially as our artificial environments we keep them in could skew that.


Edited by noebl1, October 10 2017 - 4:07 AM.


#14 Offline Goldsystem - Posted October 10 2017 - 7:05 AM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches

Do you know what temperature you hibernated them at? Also, have yours laid 3 batches of eggs ever (including the nanitic batch) or was that just this year?
There was the nanitic batch then the spring batch and now they just layed a new batch. I kept them around 58-60 degrees during hibernation

#15 Offline Goldsystem - Posted October 10 2017 - 7:24 AM

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I'm almost in my third year with a new batch of eggs layed recently. They lay in batches, so far mine have layed 3 batches

Have you found that these girls require any special conditions or care in order to lay their next "batch"?
I hibernated them in December and pulled them out in February, idk if that was what triggered egg laying but it seemed to have worked. I plan on hibernating them sooner than December this year though. And give them protein, for some reason some people think they don't need as much protien as other ants but they do! I have seen journals where the ants became canabilistic due to a lack of protine being fed to them. Hopefully that information helps :)
I thought that they hibernated in the summer, and December-February sure sounds like winter to me.
No I've found that they are active in the summer so I'm pretty sure that's not true :)

#16 Offline Goldsystem - Posted October 10 2017 - 7:55 AM

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I know Randee on here didn't hibernate his P. imparis last year, and he sent me an email back in early March after what he said was a "tremendously long break" they finally laid eggs. Unfortunately he's pretty crazy busy with work, so haven't heard from him for a couple months so not sure short term if he saw any negative/positive impact to not hibernating.

"During the warmest months of the year, nest entrances are sealed and the colony enters an estivation period with no presence aboveground. Seasonal foraging activity and estivation of Prenolepis imparis varies with latitude, with colonies in the northern part of the range being active throughout the year with the exception of the summer months (Talbot 1943). "
Source: https://edis.ifas.uf...IN/IN116800.pdf

Here's the older PDF from a study in 1987 which I think has been feeding a lot of the later articles: http://www.bio.fsu.e...ions/1987-3.pdf

Location of P. imparis does look to be a factor for behaviour a bit. On page 146 (page 4 of the PDF), there's a chart that says the Florida P. imparis seem to lay in the Sept time frame in "a single pulse of brood." Not sure if lines up with other locations or not, especially as our artificial environments we keep them in could skew that.

That's really interesting, the p.imparis in my area are out for most of the summer. Even on some of the 90 degree days. Maybe their behavior differs depending on where they are? (I'm not a myrmecologist so I could be very wrong, I'm just saying what I've observed in my area)
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#17 Offline Bracchymyrmex - Posted October 12 2017 - 12:41 PM

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Ours and the wild colonies in our area were dormant during the summer. Must have to do with geographical location.


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#18 Offline RhodyAnts - Posted October 19 2017 - 3:26 PM

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My P. Imparis have no workers anymore. Really hoping for another batch soon. The queens seem to be the kind of queen that doesn't mind getting her mandibles dirty, so I hope they'll handle the care alone.




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