13 replies to this topic

[WILLj]

I have been lucky enough to find a Rytidoponera metallica queen and I am in a search for some general information on how to keep them. I also wondering how gamergates work. I know roughly what gamergates are and how the gamergate system works. But I am finding it hard to find much information online that clearly states the differences between a gamergate and a queen. A quick question, would a colony of an ant species like Rytidoponera be able to live forever using the gamergate system?

[Ants4fun]

Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 6:07 AM.

[justanotheramy]

What if you just… abducted… random species-appropriate winged boys you encountered in the neighbourhood and dropped them in your colony?

[Martialis]

Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.

 

They don't have to be mated. They can still lay eggs otherwise.They'll just be male.

 

I'm not sure if this is true with Rhytidoponera, but in some gamergate species males mate with their sisters and fertilize them. It is indeed possible—at least in some species—to have a fertilized gamergate as a reproductive in a captive colony.

[Ants4fun]

Gammergates are mated, egg laying worker ants, while queens are a desperate caste. They are larger, and winged. Rhytidoponera metallica workers can reproduce if mated with a male from a different colony. However, since our colonies are kept in indoor setups, it’s highly unlikely mating will happen, as pheromones given off from your colony wouldn’t be able to reach most other nests.

They don't have to be mated. They can still lay eggs otherwise.They'll just be male.

I'm not sure if this is true with Rhytidoponera, but in some gamergate species males mate with their sisters and fertilize them. It is indeed possible—at least in some species—to have a fertilized gamergate as a reproductive in a captive colony.

The definition of a gamergate is a mated, egg laying worker ant. A worker ant that has not mated and cannot lay fertilized eggs is simply a worker. Many species of workers can lay eggs, but not mate with males.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 7:07 AM.

[Ants4fun]

What if you just… abducted… random species-appropriate winged boys you encountered in the neighbourhood and dropped them in your colony?

You can attempt this, however it will be hard to coerce them into breeding. There usually has to be environmental triggers that will stimulate them to fly and search for queens/gamer gates. Simply removing them from established nests and putting them into another nest will not ensure a successfully mated gamergate.

Edited by Ants4fun, January 21 2020 - 7:11 AM.

[AntsDakota]

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

Edited by AntsDakota, January 21 2020 - 10:34 AM.

[WILLj]

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

[TheMicroPlanet]

 

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

 

Of what nature is this "fight"? Is it a fight to the death (or until the opponent is subdued) or more of an amassing of information from each worker so the colony knows who would be the best gamergate?

[Ants4fun]

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

It would still be possible, as when the gamergate dies, new brood is still there available to be raised up. Once the new workers expose, they will then battle to be the next gammergate, with their organs intact.

[Ants4fun]

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

Of what nature is this "fight"? Is it a fight to the death (or until the opponent is subdued) or more of an amassing of information from each worker so the colony knows who would be the best gamergate?

It varies from species to species. Harpegnathos are known for jousting for power with their mandibles. Others will simply be submissive, etc. not usually to the death, however, as that would be detrimental to the colony.

[AntsDakota]

 

 

Or maybe you could collect wild workers and give them a setup. Then they'd lay male eggs, and perhaps if the setups were connected (in a way that workers couldn't get through), the now fully developed males could cross over, and they would mate? Just speculation (and watching AntsCanada), but it seems a bit more likely to work than grabbing wild males and dumping them in the setup.

After doing some more research, this probably wounldn’t be possible as normal workers from a gamergate colony won’t have the right reproductive organs. You see, all female workers are born with the right reproductive organs and can possibly become a gamergate. When a gamergate is chosen however, she will carefully remove this organ from every single female worker that encloses. When the gamergate dies, the workers stop having the organs removed and the fight for the right of becoming the new gamergate.

It would still be possible, as when the gamergate dies, new brood is still there available to be raised up. Once the new workers expose, they will then battle to be the next gammergate, with their organs intact.

 

So therefore, you need brood as well. (Did you mean 'eclose'?)

[Formicoidea]

ok.

So first up.

Some general information about Rhytidoponera queens.

During the founding stage they need protein. When i had my first queen i fed it seeds, sugars, etc. What i didn't give her was insects. insects are the best way to give them protein. Basically a must.

Also because it is a semi-claustral queen most people give it a small outworld, which allows them to forage by themselves. I don't really like giving them a large space when there is no chance they will succeed. 

Also, they are really bad climbers on glass and some plastics. i usually give them a bit of sand in their test-tube so they can move around easier.

 

On the gamergates. Technically you could keep a colony going forever with them.

However is it pretty difficult to get them to mate. you could potentially put the container outside with teflon on both sides to stop them escaping or being invaded. 

That would be your best bet.

Mating them in captivity is probably possible but i haven't heard of it being done, nor do i think it has a high probability of working.

[Antennal_Scrobe]

I read a study once about this species, and apparently their gamergate colony was still going strong after over a decade with no added ants. It seems like it would be a better option to capture a small colony with an aspirator rather than raise a queen, as the queens are somewhat vestigial in this species and are rarely found in wild colonies.