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Harvester Ants feeding


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#1 Offline Ants853 - Posted September 11 2017 - 8:40 PM

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http://www.formicult...-and-technique/

 

Retroman wrote

 

"Now, what not to do:

  • Don't give them honey, fructose or sweets. They do not encounter any of this in the wild and can easily subsist and thrive on seeds and insect parts."

I really like his approach, but yesterday I for curiosity I gave some pollen pellets to P. Californicus and they had no isses collecting them and bringing them inside.

 

Also 

 

https://en.wikipedia...ex_occidentalis

 

"Workers harvest seeds and pollen directly from plants and gather fallen seeds."

 

P.rugosus and P. barbatus also collected them.

 

My issue right now, is to know, if pollen does them good or not? even if accepted?

 

Like Messor, they accept insects, but studies show that in nature they are only 2% of their diet, and those colonies with high protein diets have their workers life span cut down drastically.

 

 

 

 

 

 



#2 Offline Pleming - Posted September 12 2017 - 12:01 AM

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This is an interesting topic. I recently caught a few P. Rogosus queens and they are all still in the founding stage. Most have larvae and pupae. 

 

I will be feeding them nujer seeds when the workers arrive.

 

As for a carb source I will see what others have done and mimic there success. 

 

I can't feed my queens now because they are all in test-tubes, any light or vibrations and they go nuts. Also they love to eat their eggs when this happens.



#3 Offline Shaye - Posted September 12 2017 - 12:18 AM

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This is an interesting topic. I recently caught a few P. Rogosus queens and they are all still in the founding stage. Most have larvae and pupae.

I will be feeding them nujer seeds when the workers arrive.

As for a carb source I will see what others have done and mimic there success.

I can't feed my queens now because they are all in test-tubes, any light or vibrations and they go nuts. Also they love to eat their eggs when this happens.

You know that P. rugosus are semi-claustral, and therefore gather food during the founding stages.. Right? They are not a fully-claustral species. Egg-eating behaviors are not too uncommon, but perhaps resting the tube in a container? Then all you need is a straw opening to the tube so she can forage.

Edit: This is incorrect. I was confused with a different species.

Edited by Shaye, September 12 2017 - 1:09 PM.

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#4 Offline klawfran3 - Posted September 12 2017 - 7:04 AM

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"Don't give them honey, fructose or sweets. They do not encounter any of this in the wild and can easily subsist and thrive on seeds and insect parts."

 

--> you gave them pollen

 

Pollen is none of these. It's made up of mostly proteins. It should be totally fine, if not healthy for them to eat. I'm not too sure what the issue is.


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#5 Offline StopSpazzing - Posted September 12 2017 - 8:27 AM

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I currently have P. californicus; they happen to be my first queens. They are currently still in founding stage. I have fed them sweets but they prefer other bugs or seeds. They seem to like oats actually. I have a wiki entry with my current knowledge they may be helpful for other Pogonomyrmex. spp if you are interested. Have the same issue with vibrations and light, BUT only one of the queens in light sensitive, other doesn't freak out when light is introduced. They both like to dig in soil, and wish I would have given them soil to dig in sooner. Once I introduced soil, they immediately started digging and then they moved their brood.

 

https://www.antkeepi...ex_californicus


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#6 Offline JasonD - Posted September 12 2017 - 8:49 AM

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You know that P. rugosus are semi-claustral, and therefore gather food during the founding stages.. Right? They are not a fully-claustral species. Egg-eating behaviors are not too uncommon, but perhaps resting the tube in a container? Then all you need is a straw opening to the tube so she can forage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nooo! P. rugosus is one of the few Pogonomyrmex species that IS fully-claustral. P. rugosus queens are also larger and have bigger food stores. 

 

 

 

@Pleming: I feed my P. californicus nothing but insects and seeds. I'd suggest smaller seeds like kentucky blue grass when you first get nanitics. If you only have access to the nyjer seeds, you can always use a razor blade to shell them before offering them to your colony. Shelled seeds won't store as well but it will be easier for the smaller nanitics to eat. You don't have to do this though - the queen will be large enough to shell nyjer seeds. 


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#7 Offline Pleming - Posted September 12 2017 - 11:18 AM

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You know that P. rugosus are semi-claustral, and therefore gather food during the founding stages.. Right? They are not a fully-claustral species. Egg-eating behaviors are not too uncommon, but perhaps resting the tube in a container? Then all you need is a straw opening to the tube so she can forage.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Nooo! P. rugosus is one of the few Pogonomyrmex species that IS fully-claustral. P. rugosus queens are also larger and have bigger food stores. 

 

 

 

@Pleming: I feed my P. californicus nothing but insects and seeds. I'd suggest smaller seeds like kentucky blue grass when you first get nanitics. If you only have access to the nyjer seeds, you can always use a razor blade to shell them before offering them to your colony. Shelled seeds won't store as well but it will be easier for the smaller nanitics to eat. You don't have to do this though - the queen will be large enough to shell nyjer seeds. 

 

 

Thanks, I will try that.



#8 Offline StopSpazzing - Posted September 12 2017 - 12:57 PM

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If you have some data to add, https://www.antkeepi...omyrmex_rugosus is missing some key information. Would appreciate it!


Edited by StopSpazzing, September 12 2017 - 12:57 PM.

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#9 Offline Shaye - Posted September 12 2017 - 1:07 PM

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You know that P. rugosus are semi-claustral, and therefore gather food during the founding stages.. Right? They are not a fully-claustral species. Egg-eating behaviors are not too uncommon, but perhaps resting the tube in a container? Then all you need is a straw opening to the tube so she can forage.

 
 
Nooo! P. rugosus is one of the few Pogonomyrmex species that IS fully-claustral. P. rugosus queens are also larger and have bigger food stores. 
 
 
 
@Pleming: I feed my P. californicus nothing but insects and seeds. I'd suggest smaller seeds like kentucky blue grass when you first get nanitics. If you only have access to the nyjer seeds, you can always use a razor blade to shell them before offering them to your colony. Shelled seeds won't store as well but it will be easier for the smaller nanitics to eat. You don't have to do this though - the queen will be large enough to shell nyjer seeds.
My bad entirely.. I was thinking of other Pogonomyrmex species.

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#10 Offline klawfran3 - Posted September 12 2017 - 4:34 PM

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If you have some data to add, https://www.antkeepi...omyrmex_rugosus is missing some key information. Would appreciate it!

your sting/ bite rating for them should be 7-8/10. they hurt BAD. there's a species of Pogonomyrmex with venom comparable to cobra venom, i forget which one though.


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#11 Offline StopSpazzing - Posted September 12 2017 - 4:42 PM

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If you have some data to add, https://www.antkeepi...omyrmex_rugosus is missing some key information. Would appreciate it!

your sting/ bite rating for them should be 7-8/10. they hurt BAD. there's a species of Pogonomyrmex with venom comparable to cobra venom, i forget which one though.

 

Thanks for your info, added. 

 

Harvester ants in the genus Pogonomyrmex have the most toxic venom based on mice LD50 values, with P. maricopa venom being the most toxic.

according to http://entnemdept.if...hapter_23.shtml


Edited by StopSpazzing, September 12 2017 - 4:43 PM.

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#12 Offline Shaye - Posted September 12 2017 - 7:43 PM

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If you have some data to add, https://www.antkeepi...omyrmex_rugosus is missing some key information. Would appreciate it!

your sting/ bite rating for them should be 7-8/10. they hurt BAD. there's a species of Pogonomyrmex with venom comparable to cobra venom, i forget which one though.

That depends if you are comparing them to any ant species.. I would not say they are that bad. Maybe 6, I at one time was daily invading rugosus territories and was always stung a minimum of 4-5 times within an hour period. It swells slightly and hurts, but idk about an 8.

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#13 Offline JasonD - Posted September 12 2017 - 8:20 PM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting. 



#14 Offline Samarkand - Posted September 13 2017 - 6:06 AM

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Seeds are not just collected and consumed for carbs in the case of harvester ants. Seeds contain a high percentage of protein, hence why they feed their larva the antbread.

If you give your ants a wide variety of seeds to choose from, they will get all the protein and aminoacids they need for the brood and queen.

I actually raised my small colony of Messor Barbarus (100+ and around one year old) on seeds alone. No insects at all and i even started to get majors at around 50 workers. Hoping for supermajors soon 😜

Though i wouldn't try it, my colony is an experiment and i expect my colony will run into problems down the road. Like a lack of minerals and such.
Keeper of:

Genus- Species- Size-

Camponotus Herculeanus. Small.
Messor Barbarus. Medium.
Lasius Niger. Medium.
Formica Fusca. Founding.
Myrmica Rubra. Founding.

#15 Offline klawfran3 - Posted September 13 2017 - 9:39 AM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting.

I got stung many, many times on my hands (not my best moment, didn't really realize i put my hands there on a nest until it was too late) and after excruciating pain had my hands go numb with pins and needles tingling for a day or so. I must either be really sensitive to the venom or I messed up BAD. One of the worst pains I ever felt, and i have a dent in my skull from a few years ago.

Edited by klawfran3, September 13 2017 - 9:43 AM.

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#16 Offline Shaye - Posted September 14 2017 - 1:19 AM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting.

Perhaps my body is more tolerant then.. I guess it's always bound to be that their are different tolerance levels in people, such as klawfran3's example..
I guess it is also widely reffered to as a 3 out of 4 on the Schmidt pain index. Which is a 7.5 out of 10.

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#17 Offline Zeiss - Posted September 14 2017 - 1:26 AM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting.

Perhaps my body is more tolerant then.. I guess it's always bound to be that their are different tolerance levels in people, such as klawfran3's example..
I guess it is also widely reffered to as a 3 out of 4 on the Schmidt pain index. Which is a 7.5 out of 10.

 

I've been stung by P. californicus, rugosus, and some others in the area.  Their stings weren't that painful to me; it was more like an itching sensation along with warmth emanating from the sting locations.  After a while, it was just sensitive, not painful, but sensitive to whatever happened to it.  



#18 Offline klawfran3 - Posted September 14 2017 - 7:37 AM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting.

Perhaps my body is more tolerant then.. I guess it's always bound to be that their are different tolerance levels in people, such as klawfran3's example..
I guess it is also widely reffered to as a 3 out of 4 on the Schmidt pain index. Which is a 7.5 out of 10.

 

Yeah, there's a reason LD 50 exists, all bodies react differently to venom so what could kill one person is a bee sting to another. LD50 is just the average where half a population dies. Bee stings are pretty much nothing to me, but I inflame ridiculously bad to mosquito bites and apparently Pogonomyrmex venom  :rolleyes: To me the pain felt like a red hot electric nail someone pushed into my skin


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#19 Online T.C. - Posted September 14 2017 - 9:04 AM

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I agree with the higher sting rating. I've only been stung by P. californicus but I'd put their stings on par with a bee sting.

Perhaps my body is more tolerant then.. I guess it's always bound to be that their are different tolerance levels in people, such as klawfran3's example..
I guess it is also widely reffered to as a 3 out of 4 on the Schmidt pain index. Which is a 7.5 out of 10.

 

Yeah, there's a reason LD 50 exists, all bodies react differently to venom so what could kill one person is a bee sting to another. LD50 is just the average where half a population dies. Bee stings are pretty much nothing to me, but I inflame ridiculously bad to mosquito bites and apparently Pogonomyrmex venom  :rolleyes: To me the pain felt like a red hot electric nail someone pushed into my skin

 

For me, something like a fire ant(s) isn't a big deal. But, if I got stung by a wasp... then I'm disabled for a week. I swell up real bad. Last year I got stung, and one legs was twice the size of the other. No exxageration.


Edited by T.C., September 14 2017 - 9:04 AM.


#20 Offline StopSpazzing - Posted September 18 2017 - 3:22 PM

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Any new suggested seller to get Kentucky blue grass? The linked amazon seller no longer sells it. Worried about pesticides.


Edited by StopSpazzing, September 18 2017 - 3:30 PM.

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