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The AntsCanada GAN project is helping to spread invasive ants


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#1 Offline Serafine - Posted July 14 2017 - 6:00 AM

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Remember when Mikey made his video where he shat all over antkeepers with exotic or even invasive ants?
Well... the AntsCanada GAN project is helping to spread invasive ants.
 
 
 
This needs to be dragged into the public, even if just because it's hypocrisy at the highest level.
 
The fact is GAN in it's current state is AWFUL.
Not only is there ZERO quality control in the oh-so-praised native species appreciation project with people selling "unidentified black ants" in plastic bottles, there's actually people KNOWINGLY SELLING INVASIVE ANTS THROUGH THE GAN SYSTEM.
Yes, you can (amongst others) buy red imported fire ants, the worst invasive ant species on the planet, through the GAN project. This gives "Global Nursery" a whole new meaning. And no, it doesn't matter that RIFA is already almost everywhere in Texas, this is a clear violation of GAN rules and obviously nobody at AntsCanada is giving a crap about it.
 
Here's an overview of the GAN rules (it's not like it's an entire book or a super complicated legal text, in fact it is pretty straight forwards and almost idiot-proof).

 

In joining the GAN Project as a GAN farmer I am required to:

1) Raise my ants to the best of my ability, providing the colonies with appropriate care and equipment. New queens are to be raised in the standard test tube setup or other proven method.

2) Inform AntsCanada immediately when a colony I am offering dies or if I have another colony available for sale

3) [Exclusivity] Never sell ants to anyone except through the GAN Project; this also applies to previous GAN Hosts (customers). Any and all ant purchasing transactions must be made through the GAN Project through AntsCanada.com unless express written permission is obtained from AntsCanada.com via email. Any inquiries the GAN Farmers may get personally or online must be directed to AntsCanada.com to make the purchase of the GAN Farmer’s colonies.

4) Ensure that the selling of local ants within the GAN FArmer’s area is legal

5) Always meet GAN Hosts in a public place with a companion for safety reasons when picking up the colony

6) Provide a current email address for communication, as well as a skype contact, and to let the AntsCanada.com team know if contact information changes

7) Always conduct myself professionally online and in person when working in association with AntsCanada.com, which includes online science or ant-related websites and when meeting GAN Hosts.

8) Make arrangements to meet with GAN Hosts locally

9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area

10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

 
 
So let's see how hard these rules are actually enforced on the GAN store front page.

 
Well... looks like Mexico doesn't have enough fire ants yet. Also who needs workers.

*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area
*10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

MEXICO:

Mexico City (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Solenopsis Invicta
Colony size: Pupae state
Housing: Test tube
Price: $10 USD
Number of colonies available: 20

 
The US clearly needs more fire ants as well.
And why identify them to the species level, it's not like Solenopsis invicta and Solenopsis molesta are any noticeably different species.
And again, who needs workers when there are eggs.

*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area
*10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

ALABAMA, USA:

Bay Minette (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Solenopsis invicta
Colony size: Queen
Housing: Test tube
Price: $50 USD
Number of colonies: 15

 
*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area

GEORGIA, USA:
Savannah (1 GAN Farmer)
[...]
Species: Solenopsis invicta
Colony size: 15-25 workers
Difficulty level/notes: Easy – easy to start with but when the colony size grows they will try and escape and because of their small size they are very good at squeezing into tight places you wouldn’t expect they could (like between two pieces of glass). Tip: Seal everything with glue.
Housing: Test tube
Price: $30 USD
Number of colonies available: 1


*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area
*10) Only sell ants with at least 1 worker

TEXAS, USA:

Austin (3 GAN Farmer)

[...]

GAN Farmer 2

[...]

Species: Solenopsis sp.
Colony size: 15+ workers
Housing: Test tube
Price: $10 USD
Number of colonies: 4

GAN Farmer 3

Species: Solenopsis invicta
Colony size: 1+ workers
Housing: Test tube
Price: $20 USD
Number of colonies: 3

College Station (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Solenopsis sp
Colony size:Queen + 1-9 workers
Housing: Test tube in small plastic container with sand
Price: $25 USD
Number of colonies available: 5

Species: Solenopsis Sp.
Colony size: Queen + 1-5 workers
Housing: Test tube
Price: $25 USD
Number of colonies available: 10

[...]

Species: Solenopsis Invicta
Colony size: 1-4 Queens + 1-9 workers
Housing: Test tube in small plastic container with sand
Price: $30 USD
Number of colonies available: 30

[...]

Corinth (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Solenopsis invicta
Colony size: Queen with eggs
Housing: Test tube
Price: $10 USD
Number of colonies available: 34


Edited by Serafine, July 14 2017 - 6:11 AM.

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#2 Offline Serafine - Posted July 14 2017 - 6:01 AM

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Thinking this is ridiculous? Here's some more unidentified fire ants, potentially Solenopsis invicta as well in "temporary containers" - whatever that means.
RIFA infestations in Virginia are kinda sparse yet so we urgently need more people potentially spreading them.

*1) Raise my ants to the best of my ability, providing the colonies with appropriate care and equipment. New queens are to be raised in the standard test tube setup or other proven method.
*9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area

VIRGINIA:

[...]

Williamsburg (1 GAN Farmer)

Species: Unidentified fire ant
Colony size: Queen with a few workers
Housing: Small plastic container
Price: $45 USD
Number of colonies available: 1

[...]

Species: Unidentified fire ant
Colony size: A queen and about 5 workers.
Housing: temporary container
Selling price: $38
Number of colonies: 1

[...]

Species: Fire Ant
Workers: 100+ workers and a lot of brood
Housing: temporary container
Selling price: $50
Number of colonies: 1


What? You thought this was the worst? You seen nothing yet, here's some "unidentified black ants" in "glass bottles" (could also be read as "I don't give a crap about properly IDing or nesting them, just hand over the money").

* 1) Raise my ants to the best of my ability, providing the colonies with appropriate care and equipment. New queens are to be raised in the standard test tube setup or other proven method.
* 9) Never sell ants that are not native to his/her area

ARKANSAS, USA:
Gravette (1 GAN Farmer)
Species: Unidentified black ant species
Colony size: 2+ workers
Housing: Glass bottle
Price: $20 USD each, $50 for all 3 colonies
Number of colonies: 3



AntsCanada please stop selling invasive red imported fire ants through your GAN project.
There's enough of these already in the US and they do not need to get to places where they haven't been able to spread yet.


On a further note,
If you create a framework for antkeepers to make contact and sell colonies to each other you must take at least some responsibility and do the best you can to assure that 1) there is someone helping people to properly ID their ants and 2) make sure sellers do not blatantly violate the rules on the store front page by selling ants that are highly invasive and well known to have a devastating effect on their environment (which is DEFINITELY TRUE for Solenopsis invicta). Some might even be illegal to keep in the states that they are sold (there are some US states that prohibit the keeping of red imported fire ants as pets although I do not exactly know which ones these are).

Since you are so eager to highlight the responsibility we antkeepers have for our environment I'm sure you'll understand these issues and will take appropriate steps to solve them.

Edited by Serafine, July 14 2017 - 6:11 AM.

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#3 Offline Saltynuts - Posted July 14 2017 - 8:45 AM

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What's the beef?  Fire ants being sold where fire ants are already ALL OVER THE PLACE?  Not really seeing an issue with that...



#4 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted July 14 2017 - 9:12 AM

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Serafine.. I'm GAN Farmer 2 from Katy, Texas. I know personally that no one buys Solenopsis at all. I've tried selling it for less than $5.00, and no one would buy it because it's everywhere! I agree that RIFA is a problem, but for alot of antkeepers in Texas it's our only option, unless you want to buy other species for upwards of $60. I doubt that those are invasive ants, as it would be pointless leaving the state to sell invasive ants without even IDing them. I do agree with you on the "in it for the money" part. Sadly alot of people are.


Edited by Ants_Texas, July 14 2017 - 9:23 AM.

Colonies:

Pogonomyrmex barbatus 

Myrmecocystus mimicus 

Camponotus pennsylvanicus 

Pheidole constipata

Forelius pruinosus

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Past:

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Pogonomyrmex rugosus

Searching For:

Anything that isn't Solenopsis or Brachymyrmex

Selling: 

Brachymyrmex depilis. (5+ Workers)

 

 

 

 


#5 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted July 14 2017 - 9:15 AM

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"And why identify them to the species level, it's not like Solenopsis invicta and Solenopsis molesta are any noticeably different species." - They clearly are. Molesta have yellow translucent gasters. RIFA has dark red and black gasters, and are larger.
"And again, who needs workers when there are eggs." - Sometimes those eggs can be duds, or the queen could be infertile all together. Imagine if you bought a queen and it was infertile with just male or dud eggs? That's why that rule is in place.

 

Last but not least, most Solenopsis species in Texas didn't even invade here. Alot of them are native. However, not RIFA.


Edited by Ants_Texas, July 14 2017 - 9:20 AM.

Colonies:

Pogonomyrmex barbatus 

Myrmecocystus mimicus 

Camponotus pennsylvanicus 

Pheidole constipata

Forelius pruinosus

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Past:

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Pogonomyrmex rugosus

Searching For:

Anything that isn't Solenopsis or Brachymyrmex

Selling: 

Brachymyrmex depilis. (5+ Workers)

 

 

 

 


#6 Offline Serafine - Posted July 14 2017 - 9:54 AM

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And why identify them to the species level, it's not like Solenopsis invicta and Solenopsis molesta are any noticeably different species." - They clearly are. Molesta have yellow translucent gasters. RIFA has dark red and black gasters, and are larger.

 

"And again, who needs workers when there are eggs." - Sometimes those eggs can be duds, or the queen could be infertile all together. Imagine if you bought a queen and it was infertile with just male or dud eggs? That's why that rule is in place.

 

Last but not least, most Solenopsis species in Texas didn't even invade here. Alot of them are native. However, not RIFA.

 

Please activate your irony/sarcasm detector.

 

Solenopsis molesta is a tiny native thief ant, Solenopsis invicta is probably the worst invasive ant species on the planet. OF COURSE do I know that they are two different species. Everyone with even a remote clue about ants does.
Also as stated, selling queens without workers is a violation of GAN rules, as is selling ants that are not native to your area.

The bottom line is that nobody at AntsCanada gives a crap about people blatantly violating the GAN rules on the store front page.

 

 

What's the beef?  Fire ants being sold where fire ants are already ALL OVER THE PLACE?  Not really seeing an issue with that...

The issue is that it is a direct violation of GAN rules (not selling ants that are not native to your area) and potentially even US laws (there's certain states that prohibit the keeping of red imported fire ants) - and it's not just fire ants, "unidentified black ants" could be anything, potentially even Argentines.
 
Also just because fire ants are in a state doesn't mean they're all over the place - Maryland and Virginia for example do have Solenopsis invicta populations but they're rather scarce and concentrated to specific areas. What these places do NOT need is stupid GAN farmers spreading them to places they haven't reached yet.


Edited by Serafine, July 14 2017 - 10:05 AM.

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#7 Offline cpman - Posted July 14 2017 - 10:32 AM

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This is a big issue.

One additional thing of big importance is the RIFA quarantine zone.

One of the things that is prohibited is shipping queens and reproducing colonies outside of that quarantine zone.

Because not every part of every state with RIFA is covered by this, shipping them, even within the state, may be in violation of federal law.


Frankly, the GAN was a good idea, but I agree that it needs to be fixed.

Personally, I'd even be wary of shipping native ants to other parts of the state where they aren't native. You never know what could become invasive or a pest.
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#8 Offline gcsnelling - Posted July 14 2017 - 2:40 PM

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I have been against the GAN project since the beginning but was always loudly shouted down. Thank you for bringing this up again.


Edited by gcsnelling, July 14 2017 - 2:40 PM.

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#9 Offline Ants_Texas - Posted July 14 2017 - 2:51 PM

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And why identify them to the species level, it's not like Solenopsis invicta and Solenopsis molesta are any noticeably different species." - They clearly are. Molesta have yellow translucent gasters. RIFA has dark red and black gasters, and are larger.

 

"And again, who needs workers when there are eggs." - Sometimes those eggs can be duds, or the queen could be infertile all together. Imagine if you bought a queen and it was infertile with just male or dud eggs? That's why that rule is in place.

 

Last but not least, most Solenopsis species in Texas didn't even invade here. Alot of them are native. However, not RIFA.

 

Please activate your irony/sarcasm detector.

 

Solenopsis molesta is a tiny native thief ant, Solenopsis invicta is probably the worst invasive ant species on the planet. OF COURSE do I know that they are two different species. Everyone with even a remote clue about ants does.
Also as stated, selling queens without workers is a violation of GAN rules, as is selling ants that are not native to your area.

The bottom line is that nobody at AntsCanada gives a crap about people blatantly violating the GAN rules on the store front page.

 

 

What's the beef?  Fire ants being sold where fire ants are already ALL OVER THE PLACE?  Not really seeing an issue with that...

The issue is that it is a direct violation of GAN rules (not selling ants that are not native to your area) and potentially even US laws (there's certain states that prohibit the keeping of red imported fire ants) - and it's not just fire ants, "unidentified black ants" could be anything, potentially even Argentines.
 
Also just because fire ants are in a state doesn't mean they're all over the place - Maryland and Virginia for example do have Solenopsis invicta populations but they're rather scarce and concentrated to specific areas. What these places do NOT need is stupid GAN farmers spreading them to places they haven't reached yet.

 

I do agree. This is pretty hypocritical. I just don't agree with spesific points you made.

If it was up to me - I wouldn't allow it.


Colonies:

Pogonomyrmex barbatus 

Myrmecocystus mimicus 

Camponotus pennsylvanicus 

Pheidole constipata

Forelius pruinosus

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Past:

Pseudomyrmex gracilis

Pogonomyrmex rugosus

Searching For:

Anything that isn't Solenopsis or Brachymyrmex

Selling: 

Brachymyrmex depilis. (5+ Workers)

 

 

 

 


#10 Offline Vendayn - Posted July 14 2017 - 2:55 PM

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I have been against the GAN project since the beginning but was always loudly shouted down. Thank you for bringing this up again.

Its only feasible with heavy regulation and monitoring of what is being sold. Invasive ants shouldn't be sold (and that is illegal to begin with) or even traded or transported. The GAN thing looks like one of those underground blackmarket things with unknown ants and invasive ants being sold.

 

I personally like the marketplace here on this forum where people sell ants or formicariums and other ant products. You actually KNOW what you are getting, where the ants are coming from and a bunch of information is available. But this forum is able to shut down any illegal post or ad or whatever, and its pretty regulated. I personally have nothing against Antscanada, but he seems to not even pay attention to what is being sold and that is pretty disappointing.



#11 Offline Kevin - Posted July 14 2017 - 3:04 PM

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The GAN rules need to be enforced stronger, I see man unidentified species for sale... Honestly I doubt a lot of the "black ants" are actually queens. Proof of the person raising them and not just selling a collected colony would be nice too. I mostly agree with the minimum of one worker rule, however it would be difficult to control a more complex rule, especially with the current AntsCanada crowd. 


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Still developing formicaria, we shall see what I create.


#12 Offline Gabraime - Posted July 14 2017 - 6:25 PM

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Yes I think you are ridiculous tbh, shut up and enjoy life.

#13 Offline Kevin - Posted July 14 2017 - 6:53 PM

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Yes I think you are ridiculous tbh, shut up and enjoy life.

 
Next time you post, especially as a new member, I suggest taking a look at the forum rules before saying anything absurd such as your previous statement.
 
3. No posting any messages that are obscene, indecent, profane, vulgar, sexually oriented, or violate any US laws.
7. Post in legible, coherent English, without excessive use of emoticons, slang, chat acronyms, or instant messenger shorthand.

 

Generally, I think the anting community would not appreciate nor agree with what you said.


Edited by Kevin, July 14 2017 - 6:53 PM.

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Still developing formicaria, we shall see what I create.


#14 Offline Ricardo - Posted July 14 2017 - 8:43 PM

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Yes I think you are ridiculous tbh, shut up and enjoy life.

 
Next time you post, especially as a new member, I suggest taking a look at the forum rules before saying anything absurd such as your previous statement.
 
3. No posting any messages that are obscene, indecent, profane, vulgar, sexually oriented, or violate any US laws.
7. Post in legible, coherent English, without excessive use of emoticons, slang, chat acronyms, or instant messenger shorthand.

 

Generally, I think the anting community would not appreciate nor agree with what you said.

 

 

I do agree with him kevin. Especially since you ship ants and I have proof.

Made me log into my account just since your a hypocrite.



#15 Offline antking117 - Posted July 14 2017 - 9:00 PM

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@Ricardo - if you are referring to rule 8 he has not broken the rule, read it carefully before you try to criticize and call names. It says to not illegally ship across borders, unless you have proof of him ship across borders please be careful to put forth your misinformation and be a useless comment in this already heated topic. If he has sent ants illegally over state lines then continue.



#16 Offline Ricardo - Posted July 14 2017 - 9:57 PM

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@Ricardo - if you are referring to rule 8 he has not broken the rule, read it carefully before you try to criticize and call names. It says to not illegally ship across borders, unless you have proof of him ship across borders please be careful to put forth your misinformation and be a useless comment in this already heated topic. If he has sent ants illegally over state lines then continue.

Your also putting misinformation out by saying I'm putting misinformation out. And who are you insulting me for having a opinion?  calling my thoughts useless. I'm very hurt. I do have more info but that's between kevin and me. 


Edited by Ricardo, July 14 2017 - 9:57 PM.


#17 Offline T.C. - Posted July 14 2017 - 10:00 PM

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@Ricardo, I think you would be better off logging back out of your account. No need to stir up trouble.

Edited by T.C., July 14 2017 - 10:01 PM.


#18 Offline Ricardo - Posted July 14 2017 - 10:00 PM

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let me go batspiderfish on you. "The right to freedom of expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rightsand recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the UDHR states that "everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".



#19 Offline dermy - Posted July 15 2017 - 2:42 AM

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let me go batspiderfish on you. "The right to freedom of expression is recognized as a human right under article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rightsand recognized in international human rights law in the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (ICCPR). Article 19 of the UDHR states that "everyone shall have the right to hold opinions without interference" and "everyone shall have the right to freedom of expression; this right shall include freedom to seek, receive and impart information and ideas of all kinds, regardless of frontiers, either orally, in writing or in print, in the form of art, or through any other media of his choice".

This may be true, but this is a forum. Forums and website owners/admins make the rules on how "far" the freedom of speech is on their boards. I know drew is pretty laid back on the matter though.


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#20 Offline antking117 - Posted July 15 2017 - 3:24 AM

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Has ricardo gone to school? Can you say whatever you want in school? I don't thinks so.






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